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Re: Visit to Switzerland

tudor erich
 

We stay in hotels in Switzerland that offer bed AND
breakfast. Breakfast is paid for and is not a courtesy
offer. We have noticed a wide range of consumption
habits at breakfast from mouse like to trencherman.
Average quantity consumed must be well known by
hoteliers and I have always felt that room pricing
allows for the average observed.

I have seen several times food taken away from the
breakfast room, most often by those who have eaten
little at the table.

Perhaps habit and practice varies between countries
and nations.

Just my observations.

Bernard Haste


Re: Visit to Switzerland

csipromo
 

--- In SwissRail@..., "Rachel" <rachel.chaplin@...> wrote:

I stay at a hotel in Luzern and they always let me pack a lunch
for the day,so please don't assume the guests are stealing.

Regards Rachel
Hello Rachel/All:

Most hotels do offer their guests a courtesy Continental Breakfast as
part of the daily room rental. Taking extra rolls and cold cuts will
not get you arrested, but it will not do anything to improve the
impression that you leave with the staff when you leave.

I work in the entertainment industry and have worked in bars and
restaurants. People who don't tip and people who "pocket" leftovers
do not help the image and reputation of their nationality, and that
hurts other guests who follow your stay, no matter what they do.

If you ask the hotel to prepare sandwiches, many of them will for a
few dollars.

Next time, as you are preparing your "lunch", look around and see how
people are looking at you.

Regards

Mike C


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Andrew Moglestue
 

--- In SwissRail@..., Max Wyss <max@...> wrote:


I remember that concept. They might try again with the next round of
procurement for S-Bahn stock.
Here is the prototype

http://vaunut.org/kuvasivu/22510

Andrew


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Max Wyss
 

In fact Talgo proposed a double deck train with through gangways on
both levels. A prototype was built and demonstrated in Finland, but
this was an experimental train and never carried passengers. As far as
I am aware it has been mothballed as no orders were forthcoming.

However, the idea certainly has potential and I believe it can only be
a question of time before they (or somebody else) trys again.

I remember that concept. They might try again with the next round of procurement for S-Bahn stock.

Max.


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Andrew Moglestue
 

--- In SwissRail@..., "Krist van Besien" wrote

The interior is specified by the customer. Stadler will put in
whatever seats in whatever orientation the customer wishes. On the
drawings the SER published of the new RhB railcars the compartment
behind the driver is first class, and the first two rows of seats all
face forward (or backwards depending on direction of travel), so
someone did think of the railfans here.
It doesn't really matter whose fault it is. It is an annoying thing,
seeing it would have taken so little to remedy.

Andrew


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Krist van Besien
 

On Feb 11, 2008 1:56 PM, Andrew Moglestue <amogles@...> wrote:

sometimes I'm not sure what planners think.

my favourite example is the GTWw hich has a nice glass partition
between driver and passengers, but guess what, you can't really look
out because the front row of seats face inward rather than forward.

Whoever planned that must have had a muddled brain.

The same is true BTW for Stadler's RegioShuttle diesel railcars used
in Germany.

Maybe it's a Stadler thing?
The interior is specified by the customer. Stadler will put in
whatever seats in whatever orientation the customer wishes. On the
drawings the SER published of the new RhB railcars the compartment
behind the driver is first class, and the first two rows of seats all
face forward (or backwards depending on direction of travel), so
someone did think of the railfans here.

Krist

--
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krist@...
Bremgarten b. Bern, Switzerland
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Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Andrew Moglestue
 

--- In SwissRail@..., "gordonwis" <gordonwis@...> wrote:


This was partly unhelpful (not a nice experience) and partly helpful.
I was able to make a statement to the police and reassure the train
driver that he was no way at fault for what had happened.

in the UK trains no longer, as a rule, have a forward view for
passengers ...

I shall leave you all to draw your own conclusions from the above.
of course such things are nasty.

But it could have happened in a bus as well.

It could have happened to you when you were driving your own car.

BTW, I believe the ICE trains have a switch the driver can press in
exactly such a situation, which instantly makes the glass turn opaque
(I suppose there must be some electro-optical or similar coating on the
glass).

Andrew


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Andrew Moglestue
 

--- In SwissRail@..., "George Raymond" <geor@...> wrote:


I am 100 percent in favor of being able to look out the front.

Perhaps an argument against windows is that passengers might
distract the
driver from driving safely. This doesn't seem to be a problem on
the ICE3 at
300 km/h south of Cologne. The counterargument could be that some
lines with
much lower speeds present many more potential dangers along the
line and
require the driver's full attention.

sometimes I'm not sure what planners think.

my favourite example is the GTWw hich has a nice glass partition
between driver and passengers, but guess what, you can't really look
out because the front row of seats face inward rather than forward.

Whoever planned that must have had a muddled brain.

The same is true BTW for Stadler's RegioShuttle diesel railcars used
in Germany.

Maybe it's a Stadler thing?

Andrew


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Andrew Moglestue
 

--- In SwissRail@..., tudoryork <tudoryork@...> wrote:

I have experienced this the other way round on the
MOB. We were in unmarked reserved seats and the other
customer showed us their reservation valid for the
seats we were in. Again the conductor, not the same
one as before, was not interested in observing the
reservation.
The MOB does have a good number of strange conductors. I'm happy to
say though that this isn untypical as most Swiss railways employ
highly competent staff.

My girlfriend, her parents, and I once wanted to go into the first
class car of the Panoramic express, and the conductor stopped us on
the way in. I explained we had second class tickets but were willing
to pay the upgrade to first class if there were seats available that
were

a) together and
b) offering a decent view for everybody.

The conductor said no, he wasn't saying if such seats were available
but we would have to pay the first class upgrade anyway, even to be
allowed to look if any such seats were avaliable. The first class car
is, after all, only meant for first class passengers.

Despite trying to explain some logic to him he wasn't interested so
we gave up and the MOB lost a major fan.

I've alos experinced another situation when I was on a photographers
charter train using the historic Golden Pass pullmans (or the fakes
that MOB passes off for historic). The tour leader said we had a two
hour break and had to be back by a certain time. Well we came back
about 10 minutes before that time and the train had left. We went to
the stationmaster nad he said, the train had left earlier and it had
been announced on the station PA system and it was our fault for
having left the station. When we asked him if there was anything he
could do, he said, he could stamp our tickets that they were also
valid on the regular train. We explained that this wasn't much use
because we had the GA and could use that anyway. We demanded a refund
and he told us to write to management which is fair enough. But
managment repeatedly wrote back explaining that seeing I had used the
regular train to go home I had had my journey and was not entitled to
a refund. I explained repeatedly that seeing I had a GA that didn't
matter but this aspect of logic was lost on them.

This is why in my opinion MOB is useless.

Andrew


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Andrew Moglestue
 

--- In SwissRail@..., Max Wyss <max@...> wrote:

I am not sure whether the TGV-2N have upper-level gangways, but it
would make a lot of sense there.

And it could be that the Japanese bi-level high speed trains have
upper-level gangways too; I'd have to verify that.

In fact Talgo proposed a double deck train with through gangways on
both levels. A prototype was built and demonstrated in Finland, but
this was an experimental train and never carried passengers. As far as
I am aware it has been mothballed as no orders were forthcoming.

However, the idea certainly has potential and I believe it can only be
a question of time before they (or somebody else) trys again.

Andrew


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Max Wyss
 

I don't mind uniform consists that much. I find the ICN sets some of
the most attractive trains on the SBB network, but their interior
could be better. The most attractive "modern" interior to me is still
that of the ICE3.
I fully agree with the interior of the ICN... "boring" is my middle name... and the ICE-3 (actually, the ICE-T) interior is one of the most elegant at the moment in western Europe; for really elegant and interesting interiors, you would go to Japan, particularly to JR Kyushu).


I find the SBB double deckers the best looking double deck train in
Europe, and one of the best thought out. I wonder why the design
hasn't been adopted by other companies. I personally find the first
class perfectly adequate, as long as on doesn't make the mistake of
sitting on the seats in the AD car that are meant to be folded away
for wheelchairs.
With the SBB double deckers, I assume that you talk of the IC2000 stock. This concept (gangway on the upper level) has been used before. As far as I know (which may not be of that great a knowledge), it was first introduced with the Santa Fe "Hi level" cars for the "Chief" train sets. It was also adapted for Amtrak's Superliner fleet.

I am not sure whether the TGV-2N have upper-level gangways, but it would make a lot of sense there.

And it could be that the Japanese bi-level high speed trains have upper-level gangways too; I'd have to verify that.


Max.


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Krist van Besien
 

On Feb 11, 2008 12:05 PM, gordonwis <gordonwis@...> wrote:

This is why I enjoyed my last few visits to the Zermatt lines, and
the 'FO' last Easter. Although 'railcar', the local consists were a
mixture of traditional coaches and therfore 'interesting', whereas
the Glacier Express - although loco-hauled - was a bit 'samey' for my
linking, and a fixed formation train of SBB double deckers with a
class 460 I find 'boring' (and disappointingly uncomfortable in 1st
class).
I don't mind uniform consists that much. I find the ICN sets some of
the most attractive trains on the SBB network, but their interior
could be better. The most attractive "modern" interior to me is still
that of the ICE3.
I find the SBB double deckers the best looking double deck train in
Europe, and one of the best thought out. I wonder why the design
hasn't been adopted by other companies. I personally find the first
class perfectly adequate, as long as on doesn't make the mistake of
sitting on the seats in the AD car that are meant to be folded away
for wheelchairs.

Krist

--
krist.vanbesien@...
krist@...
Bremgarten b. Bern, Switzerland
--
A: It reverses the normal flow of conversation.
Q: What's wrong with top-posting?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What's the biggest scourge on plain text email discussions?


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

Krist van Besien
 

On Feb 11, 2008 11:54 AM, gordonwis <gordonwis@...> wrote:


Another aspect to this is what happened to me in the 1980s when
travelling in the suburbs of Cardiff (Wales, UK). An elderly chap
decided to 'end it all' by stepping out in front of the British Rail
DMU in which I was travelling. As the UK people will know BR 1950s-
60s DMUs had a forward view, so I saw what the driver saw.

This was partly unhelpful (not a nice experience) and partly helpful.
I was able to make a statement to the police and reassure the train
driver that he was no way at fault for what had happened.

in the UK trains no longer, as a rule, have a forward view for
passengers ...
On the ICE-3 sets the partition behind the driver uses a special kind
of glass that becomes transparent when electric current is applied,
and becomes opaque when the current is cut. This works on a
principle similar to that used for LCD's. the system is designed to
turn opaque when the driver pulls the emergency brake, which he is
bound to do when a collision is imminent. This "protects" the
passengers somewhat.
The partition also becomes opaque when the ICE is shut down, or
(temporarily) loses overhead power, for example at the transition from
AC to DC at the Dutch of Belgian border, or at phase breaks on French
of Belgian HSLs.

Back on topic: I yesterday travelled on the CJ from La Chaux de Fonds
to le Noirmont, and back, and the new sets on this line have forward
view too, which I particularly like on the street running section in
La Chaux de Fonds. The small train to Les Brennets also has a nice
view forward, and you can even chat with the driver while riding it.

Krist

--
krist.vanbesien@...
krist@...
Bremgarten b. Bern, Switzerland
--
A: It reverses the normal flow of conversation.
Q: What's wrong with top-posting?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What's the biggest scourge on plain text email discussions?


Re: Visit to Switzerland

tony cooper
 

The Coops in Interlaken and Chur, have a nice cafeteria for both
lunch and an early dinner (they close at 6 PM AIR... We usually
picked up enough rolls and cold cuts at breakfast at the hotel
for lunch.
As far as I am concerned this is theft. Nest time buy the stuff
at a Co-op/Migros. This sort of thing gives other guests a bad name.
Up to a point, the amount some people eat for breakfast is far greater than I would eat even if I do take a roll with me.

Roll fillings will last for a few days; it can be very inconvenient to have to buy a roll every day.

TonyC

[Non-text portions and scrap at the end of this message have been removed]


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

gordonwis
 

--- In SwissRail@..., Guerbetaler <guerbetaler@...> wrote:
Not boring uniform train consists, but
just anything that can roll!

I prefer the Bernina ABe 8/12 with mixed consits over
a "true locomotive" HGe 4/4" with one of the new Glacier
Express sets. Or any "true" SBB locomotive with a
consist of uniform bilevel cars.

The interesting thing about railways is the variety of
train consists. Not the fact if the motive power is
with or without seats ...
I told you I have feet in both camps! I tend to agree with Marcus
here.

This is why I enjoyed my last few visits to the Zermatt lines, and
the 'FO' last Easter. Although 'railcar', the local consists were a
mixture of traditional coaches and therfore 'interesting', whereas
the Glacier Express - although loco-hauled - was a bit 'samey' for my
linking, and a fixed formation train of SBB double deckers with a
class 460 I find 'boring' (and disappointingly uncomfortable in 1st
class).

In comparison a few years ago I watched Arosa trains hauled
by 'railcars' but with huge heavy ballast hoppers tagged on the at
the back of the train and almost pounding the Chur streets to
destruction! This was most definitely not a boring scene.


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

gordonwis
 

--- In SwissRail@..., "George Raymond" <geor@...> wrote:

I am 100 percent in favor of being able to look out the front.

Perhaps an argument against windows is that passengers might
distract the
driver from driving safely.
Another aspect to this is what happened to me in the 1980s when
travelling in the suburbs of Cardiff (Wales, UK). An elderly chap
decided to 'end it all' by stepping out in front of the British Rail
DMU in which I was travelling. As the UK people will know BR 1950s-
60s DMUs had a forward view, so I saw what the driver saw.

This was partly unhelpful (not a nice experience) and partly helpful.
I was able to make a statement to the police and reassure the train
driver that he was no way at fault for what had happened.

in the UK trains no longer, as a rule, have a forward view for
passengers ...

I shall leave you all to draw your own conclusions from the above.


Re: Visit to Switzerland

Rachel <rachel.chaplin@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: SwissRail@... [mailto:SwissRail@...] On Behalf
Of srseditor
Sent: 11 February 2008 07:28
To: SwissRail@...
Subject: [SwissRail] Re: Visit to Switzerland

The Coops in Interlaken and Chur, have a nice cafeteria for both lunch
and an early dinner (they close at 6 PM AIR... We usually picked up
enough rolls and cold cuts at breakfast at the hotel for lunch.
As far as I am concerned this is theft. Nest time buy the stuff at a Co-
op/Migros. This sort of
thing gives other guests a bad name.
I stay at a hotel in Luzern and they always let me pack a lunch for the day,
so please don't assume the guests are stealing.

Regards Rachel


Re: Visit to Switzerland

srseditor <bodensee@...>
 

The Coops in Interlaken and Chur, have a nice cafeteria for both lunch
and an early dinner (they close at 6 PM AIR... We usually picked up
enough rolls and cold cuts at breakfast at the hotel for lunch.
As far as I am concerned this is theft. Nest time buy the stuff at a Co-op/Migros. This sort of
thing gives other guests a bad name.


Re: Visit to Switzerland

Tim Hall <kalyr@...>
 

bob gillis wrote:

Interlaken is very good base location for the Jungfau lines, the line to
Luzern, the MOB and lines along Lac Leman.. However we toured around
from Interlaken, to Locarno to Luzern to Chur
I've always liked Spiez as an alternative to Interlaken. It's got an attractive lakeside setting, but it's much quieter and less of a tourist trap. I've found it makes a good base for out-and-back or circular trips across most of the country.

-- Tim
http://www.kalyr.com/weblog
http://kalyr.fotopic.net


Re: The RhB rail car revolution begins...

George Raymond
 

It is a "steady battle" between drivers and management, as
already mentioned here. In some way the drivers contribute to
a lack of security in trains. Every bus driver will have an eye
on his mirror to the passengers and every passenger knows
it. Why don't train drivers want to do the same?
I am 100 percent in favor of being able to look out the front.

Perhaps an argument against windows is that passengers might distract the
driver from driving safely. This doesn't seem to be a problem on the ICE3 at
300 km/h south of Cologne. The counterargument could be that some lines with
much lower speeds present many more potential dangers along the line and
require the driver's full attention.

George

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