Date   

ONElist is now eGroups

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

ONElist, the company that has hosted SwissRail, merged several months ago with a
similar company called eGroups. Since then, those lists hosted on the old
eGroups system have been moved to the superior ONElist system, and adjustments
are in progress for them.  At the same time, though, the merged company has been
changing its name to "eGroups." This change is now complete, and the name
"ONElist" is no longer used by the company.

The company assures us, however, that all old e-mail addresses and URL's
containing the word "onelist" will "ALWAYS" work, even though there are now new
ones containing the word "egroups."  You may change your SwissRail posting address
to SwissRail@... if you wish, but SwissRail@... will continue to
work.  You will find the attractive new eGroups web site at either
http://www.egroups.com or http://www.onelist.com .

My compliments to eGroups for excellent management of the transition. They make
my role easy!

Markus Giger


Re: Ari's last

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Ari won't read it, but this is the text I copied from the site he mentioned:

Our coaches run mainly towards neighbouring France as well as more distant
destinations. With Eurolines we also make connection with most of Europe.
Our regular line services include transport to the French Ski resorts. With
our guided tours you will discover points of high touristic interest in
Switzerland and neighbouring France, in particular Chamonix.

So, the only thing within Switzerland are "guided tours", no public
transport.

Antoher question: Do you also think, discussion is "too fanatic", goes too
much into details? Please post off-list, directly to me. Thanks.

Markus Giger


(No subject)

Ari <space.of.ari@...>
 

Hello, this is Ari again.

I simply explain to the members why it was written what I posted. The
list is not moderated�Ok I won't post anything in the future, because
I'll leave the list, I didn't receive neither a welcome to join, nor
a thank you for posting, so I suppose I won't receive a "Tch�ss".

I don't know a lot of things about trains but I have the feeling that
the list is too fanatic for me. The R�stigrabben is too deap. I have
no pleasure to read longer these stories of details, in fact I wanted
to join a lively list with active surveys and some pictures�

The bus station in Geneva is alone in Switzerland to be specialised
in the passengers transport ACROSS MAIN TOURIST ATTRACTIONS IN
SWITZERLAND and other countries. It has been working like that for
years, if it's illegal, I doubt there would be a web site:
http://www.geneva.ch/f/GenevaCoachStation.htm

Best regards and all the best for the future.

Ari (from Switzerland onelist)


Re: Aministrative

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Please do not post personal answers to the list but to the person concerned.
The e-mail adress of this person is always given in the header of the
message.

Now the personal thing, sorry, but as it was posted to everybody, I have to
post the answer to everybody:
Dear Ari,
The impecisions did not hurt me, I just think that we should have
informations as precise as possible on SwissRail. We can leave imprecisions
to newspaper, television and the like. There you will find plenty of it
anyway... If you found all these imprecise informations in a book, I would
not recommend this book. I think there are enough books about Swiss
railways, that are precise.

Still two points:
1. Those people in Switzerland who speak about SBB as privatized, they
really think that. What means, they do not know the reality. SBB is not
private, definitely not. British Rail was privatized.
2. Busses starting from the Geneva bus station are NOT ALLOWED to take
passengers for a ride within Switzerland!

From: "Ari " <space.of.ari@bluewin.ch>

Dear Markus,

I took what I posted from standard news in a book about Switzerland
printed in 1999. Sorry for the imprecisions whether they hurt you, it
was only general informations that had the quality to make a good
summarise. This book is a bit humorist but I think it's good for a
....
-Private or independent company, the most of the Swiss don't see the
difference.

-About buses, we have a bus station in Geneva (not TPG) for long
distance as South France and elsewhere in Switzerland too I suppose.

-How do you name Gen�ve-La plaine? I think it's a 'train local'
(Lokalzug)?
Gen�ve - La Plaine is an "RER" (S-Bahn) which, in this case means "Rh�ne
Express R�gional" instead of the official "R�seau Express R�gional". In any
case, the train numbers are from the series for S-Bahn trains (15000 Gen�ve
and Berne, 17000 Basel, 18000/19000 Z�rich).

Markus Giger


Ari

Ari <space.of.ari@...>
 

Dear Markus,

I took what I posted from standard news in a book about Switzerland
printed in 1999. Sorry for the imprecisions whether they hurt you, it
was only general informations that had the quality to make a good
summarise. This book is a bit humorist but I think it's good for a
lot a people who don't know anything about trains. You seem having
taken what it was written very strictly.

Let me try to explain why it was written what I post:

-VFS and SFR are not written on the trains, that's why nobody knows
them!

-Private or independent company, the most of the Swiss don't see the
difference�

-About buses, we have a bus station in Geneva (not TPG) for long
distance as South France and elsewhere in Switzerland too I suppose�

-How do you name Gen�ve-La plaine? I think it's a 'train local'
(Lokalzug)?

-I hope that the tunnels open to lorries trains can also see
passenger trains�

All the best

Ari
http://www.onelist.com/group/SWITZERLAND


Re: Hi from Geneva

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Sorry, I have to publish a few corrections on what
Ari wrote:
....
1,800 stations and 650 tunnels. It includes 2,000km (1,242mi) of
private lines operated by some 100 private companies, although they
aren't strictly private as many are run by canton governments. The
....
exact mileage see messages nr. 15 and 16
http://www.onelist.com/messages/SwissRail
no, not RUN by canton governments BUT:
OWNED for a big share by cantons: typically about 30% of the shares are held
by the Swiss Confederation, about 60% by the cantons interested and about
10% by others. As important exceptions I should mention:
- BLS: majority held by the canton of Berne, Confederation only 20%
- BVZ (Brig - Visp - Zermatt): no public shareholders
- FO (Furka - Oberalp): Confederation about 80%, Cantons about 20% (a
consequence of the break-down of the BFD in 1915 after having finished only
half of the stretch, with subsequent bankruptcy in 1923, auction in 1925 and
opening of the rest of the line in 1926, then electrification during
1940-42)
- all cogwheel railways going to "nowhere" (no town) as Jungfrau, Pilatus,
Gornergrat, Brienzer Rothorn etc. have no or few public shareholders.
....
Swiss federal railways are usually referred to by their initials,
which vary according to the local language: SBB (Schweizerische
Bundesbahnen) in German, henceforth used to refer to the Swiss
federal. railways, CFF (Chemins de Fer F�d�raux) in French and FFS
(Ferrovie Federali Svizzere) in Italian. The SBB celebrated its 150th
...
in the Swiss commercial register, an official name in two other languages
figures:
Viafiers federalas svizras VFS
Swiss federal railways SFR
http://www.hrabe.ch/cgi-bin/fnrGet.exe?fnr=0358021438&amt=035&lang=4&hrg_opt
=11000&shab=0000000
....
anniversary in 1997 and became a private company in 1999. It's
....
no, not a private company, but an independent company ("Aktiengesellschaft
des �ffentlichen Rechts" so of public right) with 100% of the shares held by
the Confederation
....
Despite frequent fare increases in recent years to try to reduce
SBB's deficit, Swiss
....
not only SBB but the whole public transport of Switzerland increased prices,
for all railway and bus companies have the same problem: they need
subsidies. In ticketing there are only few SBB offers, standard are public
transport offers with participation of all long-distance trains and most
regional trains and busses.
....
trains remain relatively inexpensive if you take advantage of special
tickets, excursion fares, family reductions and holiday package
deals. Over long distances trains are cheaper than buses. The Swiss
....
there is no long-distance bus service in Switzerland because no concessions
are delivered for this. Exception is Chur - Bellinzona where only a road
tunnel but no rails give a connection. But the numerous border-crossing
busses are in general cheaper than trains.
....
Trains are categorised as local trains (Regionalzug/Lokalzug, train
r�gional), fast trains (Schnellzug, train direct), Intercity (IC),
InterCity Express (ICE) and Eurocity (EC), depending on the number of
stops made. Intercity and InterCity Express trains are fast trains
....
there is no "Lokalzug". The correct categories are:
- Regionalzug/train r�gional or S-Bahn/RER (all trains NOT bold printed in
official timetable)
- RX RegioExpress (regional trains with limited stops, generally subsidized)
- Schnellzug/train direct (bold printed trains without RX, IR, IC sign or
other)
- IR InterRegio (air conditioned train with stops about every 10 to 20
minutes)
- IC InterCity (air conditioned trains with few stops)
- EC EuroCity, EN EuroNight, CIS Cisalpino, TGV, ICE etc. (border-crossing
trains)
....
supplement is payable by all passengers on EC trains and a seat
reservation is obligatory (optional on Intercity and many domestic
....
no supplement and no mandatory seat reservation within Switzerland on EC
trains!
....
trains. A private CityNightLine (CNL) sleeper train service (a joint
venture with Austria and Germany) was introduced in 1995 and CNL
....
Austria already went out of CNL and SBB will sell its shares to DB, so CNL
will be an offer of DB in the future
....
In recent years the SBB has invested heavily in expanding and
modernising its rail network, introducing new rolling stock and
improving services. The latest examples are new S-Bahn (S is short
for schnell or fast) suburban train services in Berne and Zurich with
new double-decker trains. Fast regional trains, called RegioExpress,
....
no double-deckers in Berne! S-Bahn Berne is not an SBB project! S1, S11, S3
are run by SBB, S2, S22, S33, S5, S51, S55 by BLS, S4, S44 by RM
(Regionalverkehr Mittelland)
.....
Interlaken and Zurich with cities throughout Germany. Switzerland is
building two new high-speed rail tunnels through the Alps to carry
heavy lorries, the New Transalpine Railway Project
(Neue Eisenbahnalpentransversalen/NEAT), which is expected to be
completed between 2015 and 2020 and will cost some Sfr. 15 to 20
billion.
....
the two tunnels will see passenger trains, freight trains and probably some
trains carrying heavy lorries. BLS-built L�tschberg is due 2007, SBB-built
Gotthard about 2013
....
cheese). The Montreux Oberland Bernese (MOB) railway from Montreux to
Zweisimmen/Lenk/Lucerne is 1st class only, with ultra-modern
panoramic or superpanoramic (sounds like a cinema screen) express
....
MOB has lots of second-class panoramic cars! and as of mai 28 there will not
be any 1st class only train on MOB. Narrow gauge MOB ends in Zweisimmen,
where you have to change to continue on standard gauge.
....

Markus Giger


Hi from Geneva

Ari <space.of.ari@...>
 

Gr�tzi the list,

My name is Ari and I'm a student from the city of Geneva. I used to
have some trains and I'm always in admiration in front the St-Gothard
model in the Luzern transport museum�

TRAINS
The Swiss railway network is one of the most extensive in Europe,
with around 5,000km, (3,100mi) of track (almost all electrified),
1,800 stations and 650 tunnels. It includes 2,000km (1,242mi) of
private lines operated by some 100 private companies, although they
aren't strictly private as many are run by canton governments. The
Swiss federal railways are usually referred to by their initials,
which vary according to the local language: SBB (Schweizerische
Bundesbahnen) in German, henceforth used to refer to the Swiss
federal. railways, CFF (Chemins de Fer F�d�raux) in French and FFS
(Ferrovie Federali Svizzere) in Italian. The SBB celebrated its 150th
anniversary in 1997 and became a private company in 1999. It's
renowned for its punctuality (although building or maintenance work
and bad weather occasionally delay trains), comfort and speed, the
only disadvantage being that the speed of some trains doesn't allow
time to
admire Switzerland's beauty (if you're sightseeing, catch a slow
train).

Despite frequent fare increases in recent years to try to reduce
SBB's deficit, Swiss
trains remain relatively inexpensive if you take advantage of special
tickets, excursion fares, family reductions and holiday package
deals. Over long distances trains are cheaper than buses. The Swiss
are Europe's most frequent train travellers and average
around 1,600 km a year, per head of population. Most trains consist
of 1st class, denoted by a yellow stripe along the top, and 2nd class
carriages.

Trains are categorised as local trains (Regionalzug/Lokalzug, train
r�gional), fast trains (Schnellzug, train direct), Intercity (IC),
InterCity Express (ICE) and Eurocity (EC), depending on the number of
stops made. Intercity and InterCity Express trains are fast trains
servicing the main Swiss cities. Eurocity trains are fast
international trains, providing regular services between major Swiss
towns and over 200 European cities. They are air-conditioned and
provide both a restaurant and a mini-bar trolley service. A
supplement is payable by all passengers on EC trains and a seat
reservation is obligatory (optional on Intercity and many domestic
fast trains). The reservation fee is Sfr. 4 and bookings can be made
from 24-hours to two months in advance (up to three months for
compartments in sleeping cars). Sleeping cars and cars with seats
that convert into berths (couchettes) are available on most Eurocity
trains. A private CityNightLine (CNL) sleeper train service (a joint
venture with Austria and Germany) was introduced in 1995 and CNL
plans to make Zurich the sleeper capital of Europe. International car
trains also operate from Switzerland to a number of countries. It's
advisable to reserve seats in advance, particularly when travelling
during holiday periods or over weekends.

In recent years the SBB has invested heavily in expanding and
modernising its rail network, introducing new rolling stock and
improving services. The latest examples are new S-Bahn (S is short
for schnell or fast) suburban train services in Berne and Zurich with
new double-decker trains. Fast regional trains, called RegioExpress,
have also been introduced in some areas, e.g. between St. Gallen and
Chur. The TGV from Berne, Geneva, Lausanne and Neuch�tel to Paris and
southern France, at speeds of up to 300kph. Geneva to Paris takes
around three-and-a-half hours. From spring 1996, 200kph (120mph)
Cisalpino (CIS), Pendolino tilt-body trains have connected major
Swiss towns with Milan, and German ICE high speed trains link
Interlaken and Zurich with cities throughout Germany. Switzerland is
building two new high-speed rail tunnels through the Alps to carry
heavy lorries, the New Transalpine Railway Project
(Neue Eisenbahnalpentransversalen/NEAT), which is expected to be
completed between 2015 and 2020 and will cost some Sfr. 15 to 20
billion.

In addition to the SBB, there are many small private railways in
Switzerland. Among the most interesting, for both train enthusiasts
and tourists alike, is the Glacier Express, the slowest express in
the world (average speed 20mph). It runs from St. Moritz to Zermatt
and negotiates 291 bridges and 91 tunnels during its 7 and 1/2 hour
journey (the Swiss make holes in both their mountains and their
cheese). The Montreux Oberland Bernese (MOB) railway from Montreux to
Zweisimmen/Lenk/Lucerne is 1st class only, with ultra-modern
panoramic or superpanoramic (sounds like a cinema screen) express
coaches and a saloon bar coach with hostess. The Bernina express from
Chur to Tirano in Italy, has the highest (2,253m/7,390ft) railway
traverse in the Alps and provides a unique and beautiful experience.
Switzerland Tourism (ST) publish a brochure for steam train fans
entitled Steam in Switzerland, containing general information,
schedules and fares for all private steam trains.

Most public and private trains and carriages can be chartered for
special occasions. You can also charter a special Panorama 'Vista
Dome Car' and have it hooked onto most scheduled trains, or
alternatively charter a whole train. You can even charter the Orient
Express! An excellent book for train buffs is Switzerland by Rail by
Anthony Lambert (Bradt Publications). Information about Swiss rail
services is available via their information telephone number 1572222
(calls cost Sfr. 1.19 per minute) and via the Internet (www.rail.ch).

Tch�ss

Ari
(I am also the Switzerland Onelist owner
http://www.onelist.com/group/SWITZERLAND).


GTW 2/6

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Regionalverkehr Mittelland (RM) is expected to order 8 GTW 2/6 in the near future. They would be standard gauge and 15000V 16.7Hz as those of MThB.
 
Markus Giger


Governemental Money for Railways

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

From our member John Fleck I got this message:
 
I'm sending this to you to show how differently our Canadian Government
treats our passenger train service compared to your wonderful SBB!!

If you would like to publish this to the SwissRail Members, please feel
free to do so!

A billion for AMTRAK, how much for VIA Rail?: Transport 2000 asks
    
    TORONTO, March 20 /CNW/ - TRANSPORT 2000 CANADA is calling on Industry
Minister John Manley and Transport Minister David Collenette to reconcile
the federal government's loans totalling a billion dollars to AMTRAK, the US
passenger railway, with its treatment of VIA Rail which is not allowed to
borrow money to upgrade its outdated trains, tracks and signal system.
    In a letter to the two Ministers Transport 2000 President Harry Gow
notes: "The billion dollars sent south of the border could have been loaned
to VIA Rail to purchase new rolling stock, renovate track and crossings,
eliminate all dark areas, and to collaborate with CP and CN to upgrade all
facilities used by VIA across the country."
    "Please advise at the earliest opportunity as to your plans to reinvest
in VIA Rail Canada," Gow asks.
 
This gives me the opportunity to explain in a few words, how the Swiss rail system is financed:
 
Almost all investments in rail infrastructure (physical plant) are financed by the Confederation and the Cantons with loans without interest. (Cantons do not have to contribute to main lines.) Trains using the infrastructure (even the own trains of a company) pay a predetermined price depending on distance, load an earnings. This price covers about one third of infrastructure costs. The rest again comes from Confederation and Cantons as subsidy. This subsidy is fixed in adavance.
 
In the same way, Confederation and Cantons subsidize Regional trains (including RX = RegioExpress) for their planned non-covered costs.
 
No direct subsidies are paid for long-distance trains (IC = InterCity, IR = InterRegio, EC = EuroCity etc.) of SBB and BLS. Of course these companies are free to borrow money for rolling stock investments.
 
There is no subsidy for freight trains with two exceptions:
- narrow gauge freight is subsidized
- combined traffic can get subsidies (TOFC, Container, accompanied piggyback)
 
All these subsidies total about 3 billion CHF annually.
 
Markus Giger


NINA, new order to be placed

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

As newspapers told, BLS will order 6 more NINA (Niederflur-Nahverkehrszüge = low floor short distance trains) to be added to the existing 8 ABe 4/8 525 001-008. It was said that thougts were made to include toilets as the working range of these trains was widened (against first plannings) with their use on "S-Bahn Bern" (they now usually run S5 Bern - Neuchâtel, S51Bern - Bümpliz Nord/Rosshäusern, S55 Bern - Murten and on weekends and in the evening S2 Schwarzenburg - Bern - Langnau). The 6 trainsets would replace the remaining two-car ABDe 4/8 751-54 and the Be 4/4 761-62.
BLS tries to place its order together with MO (Martigny - Orsières), which wants to buy 2 shortened trains (Be 4/6), and perhaps other railway companies. Nothing was said whether fianancement for the trainsets was secured.
 
BLS rolling stock including NINA
 
explanations on NINA in german:
 
Markus Giger


Orient Express to be sold

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

There are messages telling that Reisebüro Mittelthurgau (RMT) would like to sell their rail equipment, as it was nearly impsooible to fully cover costs of operation and maintenance. The five ex-Rheingold dome cars were sold to Sweden together with some newer sleeping cars. They will all return to regular service. For the ancient CIWLT Orient Express cars no buyer is known but RMT said they were willing to sell as soon as a good offer would come in. Also the famous "Churchill"-arrow (red arrow) from 1939 would be sold if a buyer turned up.
 
RMT also was involved in the American Orient Express, for details see "Trains" magazine of February.
 
Markus Giger


Statistics (2)

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

In November 1999 22km of new line, mainly in Tunnel was added to the network (RhB Vereina), bringing the total in meter gauge to 1583km.
 
Markus Giger


Statistics

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Some Statistic about the Swiss Rail network:
3658km standard gauge 1435mm, of which 2908km SBB
   2km narrow gauge 1200mm (Rheineck - Walzenhausen)
1561km meter gauge 1000mm, of which 74km SBB (Brünig: Luzern - Interlaken Ost)
  57km narrow gauge 800mm (cogwheel)
  13km narrow gauge 750mm (Waldenburgerbahn: Liestal - Waldenburg)
rack or cogwheel sections 9% to 25% (Pilatusbahn 48%) on all gauges except for 750mm. Tramways (about 172km) are mostly meter gauge, few standard gauge. The network comprises less than 20km of non-electrified lines.
 
There is one little train with 600mm gauge that offers public transport (TTE Trains Touristiques de l'Emosson) but its infrastructure is exempt from federal rail regulation.
 
Markus Giger
 


[Fwd: Antw: Engadin Star]

John Fleck <johntgv@...>
 

Attached are the schedules for the RhB's new Engadine Star May 28 to
October 15, 2000.

John Fleck


Re: Swiss Companies in the free market

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Keith asked:
I thought the GTW 2/6 on "Seelinie" was the Stadler diesel unit. I remember one being in St. Gallen for the celebrations in 1997. Is there an electric version running to Herisau? Do the RBDe 4/4's from MThB run on this service too - or do you know where they run? (I assume this is a relatively recent change in the service since I do not recall seing MThB units in Herisau when I was there 1996-7.)
 
For use on the formerly SBB-operated "Seelinie" MThB bought in 1998/99 10 electric GTW 2/6 RABe 2/6 526 680 - 689 together with 4 driving trailers 29-35 221 - 224.
 
The 3 diesel GTW 2/6 Bm 2/6 596 571 - 573 of 1996/97 are used on the non-electrified german "Seehäsle" line Radolfzell - Stockach which was reopened to passenger traffic with the help of regional subsidies.
 
The 4 RBDe 4/4 566 631 - 634 of 1994 (identical with SBB 560) run, together with the 6 ABDe 536 611 - 616 of 1965/66, the "Seehas" Weinfelden - Konstanz - Singen - Engen. Between Konstanz and Engen this is a DB-service, MThB running on a contractual basis.
 
GTW 2/6 exist in a nearly unbelievable variety (delivered or under construction):
 
Country, number built/to be built, railway company, numbers if known, (year of delivery), gauge, other remarks
Diesel units (all German units are standard gauge):
Germany   3 MThB 596 571-573 (1996/97) Radolfzell - Stockach
Germany 14 UBB Usedomer Bäderbahn
Germany 30 DB  646 001-030, for Brandenburg
Germany 12 DB  646 ..., for Magdeburg
Germany   3 HLB VT  101-103  (1998, without 1st class, with toilets)
Germany 12 HLB VT  104-115 (1999, without 1st class nor toilets)
Germany  3 HLB 508 116-118 (1999, with 1st class and toilets)
Germany 12 HLB VT  119-130 (1999...) Hessische Landesbahn
Greece 17 OSE 1000mm narrow gauge
Greece 12 OSE 1435mm
USA 20 NJT Trenton - Camden 1435mm
 
Electric units:
Switzerland 10 MThB 526 680-689 (1998/99) 1435mm 15kV 16.7Hz a.c.
Austria 8 StH/LILO 22.151-158 (2000) 1435mm 800V d.c. (and 15kV 16.7Hz a.c. for 22.151)
Switzerland 7 ASM (ex BTI) Be 2/6 501-507 (1997) 1000mm 1200V d.c., 1 additional traction unit 5080
Switzerland 3 CEV Be 2/6 7001-7004 (1997/98) 1000mm 850V d.c., also in use on MOB
Cesko 14 ZSR 425 96.. (2000...) 1000mm 1500V d.c., Tatra railway
Switzerland 4 CJ ... 1000mm 1500V d.c., Chemin de fer du Jura
Switzerland 2 YSC ... 1000mm 15kV 16.7Hz a.c., Yverdon - Ste-Croix
 
So there are for each standard and narrow gauge: diesel, a.c. and d.c. trains.
 
Markus Giger


Re: Swiss Companies in the free market

Keith Ballinger <kballinger@...>
 

 Snip...... 
 
New MThB "GTW 2/6" (ABe 2/6) trains for the "Seelinie" are on contractual basis maintained in Herisau by BT. As most MThB rolling stock is fitted with german pantographs, they must not go further than Herisau, clearance in tunnels not being sufficient. The MThB trains run through from Schaffhausen - Kreuzlingen to St. Gallen - Herisau, BT push-pull-compositions doing the same in the other direction. So it is a cooperation, each railway company keeping its responsability as it was before. But passengers do not have to change in Romanshorn, where MThB and BT meet.  http://www.bt-bahn.ch/geografie.html 
 
Unsnip.........
 
I thought the GTW 2/6 on "Seelinie" was the Stadler diesel unit. I remember one being in St. Gallen for the celebrations in 1997. Is there an electric version running to Herisau? Do the RBDe 4/4's from MThB run on this service too - or do you know where they run? (I assume this is a relatively recent change in the service since I do not recall seing MThB units in Herisau when I was there 1996-7.)
 
(Sorry about not deleting the duplicate text in the previous message - my oversight!)
 

Regards,
Keith Ballinger
NEPEAN, Ontario, CANADA

E-mail: kballinger@...


Re: Swiss Companies in the free market

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

A little administrative thing: Please do not repeat the whole message you are answering on or asking on. Just take the important part and delete the rest. Otherwise we would have each message twice or even more times in the archive.  http://www.onelist.com/messages/SwissRail
 
Keith Ballinger asked:
I have heard rumours of some merger between the MThB, SOB, and BT. Is there any truth to this? Also, I believe that the MThB now runs regularly on BT tracks - which route is this on?
 
It is not yet time for mergers. But changes will eventually take place. Before, the Confederation and the cantons will have to define their position as owners (together they mostly keep around 90% of stock, this is true for MThB, SOB and BT). In the discussion about BLS, it was said, that the Confederation is not willing to procure risk capital for freight and passenger transport. On the other hand, the Confederation paid most of the investments made on BLS in the past 30 years or so. Thus, BLS infrastructure (assets, not day-to-day operations) should be brought into a separate corporation. There could be a similar solution proposed for MThB, SOB and BT. Answers are not to be given before next year.
 
New MThB "GTW 2/6" (ABe 2/6) trains for the "Seelinie" are on contractual basis maintained in Herisau by BT. As most MThB rolling stock is fitted with german pantographs, they must not go further than Herisau, clearance in tunnels not being sufficient. The MThB trains run through from Schaffhausen - Kreuzlingen to St. Gallen - Herisau, BT push-pull-compositions doing the same in the other direction. So it is a cooperation, each railway company keeping its responsability as it was before. But passengers do not have to change in Romanshorn, where MThB and BT meet.  http://www.bt-bahn.ch/geografie.html
 
Markus Giger


Re: Swiss Companies in the free market

Keith Ballinger <kballinger@...>
 

I have heard rumours of some merger between the MThB, SOB, and BT. Is there any truth to this? Also, I believe that the MThB now runs regularly on BT tracks - which route is this on?

Regards,
Keith Ballinger
NEPEAN, Ontario, CANADA

E-mail: kballinger@...

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Giger-Baumann [mailto:giger.baumann@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 4:55 PM
To: SwissRail
Subject: [SwissRail] Swiss Companies in the free market

From: "Giger-Baumann"

On January 1st, 1999 open access to the Swiss rail network was introduced. For the German network this was done even earlier. But until now, a Swiss company can not go to Germany and a German company can not come to Switzerland. Except...
 
Mittelthurgaubahn (MThB) founded a German firm called "Mittelthurgaubahn Deutschland GmbH" and thus became a German railway company. No problem now to run on either side of the Rhine.
 
BLS Lötschbergbahn signed an agreement with DB and did not feel it was necessary to do it alike. Not much of this cooperation with DB is visible until now. But within Switzerland, BLS competes with SBB on the freight market. It was said, that form mid-february BLS would run its own freight trains on the Gotthard line.
 
On the other hand, BLS also cooperates with SBB for Post-transports and for a new piggy-back-relation Freiburg i.Br. (D) - Lötschberg - Novara (I). And in the passenger sector, the old type of cooperation continues. This means, a BLS passenger train in Basel is - in legal terms - an SBB train.
 
SBB itself found its way to Germany. As SBB can not go there on its own, a cooperation with BASF started. Now engineers from SBB drive the new BASF Electrics (145 CL 001 and 002) from Basel to Ludwigshafen. SBB said, they wanted to fit some of their own locomotives to run over German rails, fitting Indusi, LZB, radio and an adapted pantograph.
 
Looking south, SBB just signed a joint-venture agreement with FS to build up Cargo Svizzera - Italiana (CSI), an Italian firm. If you change two letters you get CIS, the initials (reporting marks) for Cisalpino (owner of 9 Pendolino ETR 470 tilting trains), a Swiss firm on which FS holds 50% and SBB together with BLS and some cantons 50%.
 
Markus Giger


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Re: SBB engines HO Roco 4 sale.

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Jack Hankey" wrote:

I have for sale:
two SBB 2-10-0 Elephants, still in box.
one SBB AE 6/6 electric, with power from overheads or tracks.
Still in box.
Please contact: jack@otvcableLAN.net
thanks.
Well, allow me the following explanations:
Outside Amerika, nobody would easily understand, what a "2-10-0 Elephant"
is. I counted and found out, that it must be a C 5/6, or more generally, a
1'E. The "Elephant" helped as well, as this is the nickname of the C 5/6.
The old Swiss system is simple: count the driver AXLES, then count all
AXLES.
The designation Ae 6/6 is of the same sort. But it does not show, whether it
is an F-coupled or a C'C' locomotive. Small letter e indicates electric, m
indicates motor (diesel or gazoline). A, B, C, D and R stand for different
speed limits. E is a tender steam locomotive or a shunter. G stands for
narrow gauge and H for cogwheel. Two special things:
- Tender locomotives have the speed limit indicated with small letters, e.g.
Eb 3/5
- Motor coaches carry A, B, C for 1st class, 2nd class or (ancient) 3rd
class, D (untill 1966 = F) for baggage. If they can run on cog lines, they
have a small "h".

Markus Giger


BLS trains on the Gotthard

Giger Markus BAV <Markus.Giger@...>
 

According to todays "Bund" newspaper, it was early in the morning of
Thursday that the first freight train with BLS locomotive arrived in
Chiasso. The train consisted of Re 4/4 189 and only nine waggons. It starts
in Kaijfok near Rotterdam and ends in Milano-Smistamento. Loading capacity
of the train is sold by a dutch firm, traction is done by DB, BLS and FS.
The train will return on Saturday. Weekly running is planned for now,
additional trains only being added when transport volume will grow.
Markus Giger

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