Date   

Re: Digest Number 98

Brian Hemming <chernex@...>
 

File will not open in my version of Excel 5.0. Shown as "File format is not
valid". Any ideas?

Brian

----- Original Message -----
From: <SwissRail@egroups.com>
To: <SwissRail@egroups.com>
Sent: 13 January 2001 13:03
Subject: [SwissRail] Digest Number 98


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There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: swiss rail system
From: "Giger-Baumann" <giger.baumann@smile.ch>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:28:56 +0100
From: "Giger-Baumann" <giger.baumann@smile.ch>
Subject: Re: Re: swiss rail system

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Giger-Baumann" <giger.baumann@smile.ch>
| Other changes took place but I would need my list, I have at the office,
to
| tell you which. If you are interested, I will give you that information.

Here it is: A list with all closed rail lines in Switzerland and with all
rail
services replaced by buses. Go to files section, enter folder "Rail Network"
and here is the Excel file. If you have corrections, amendments, please
post.
I will update the list from time to time.

Markus Giger



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Re: swiss rail system

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Giger-Baumann" <giger.baumann@smile.ch>
| Other changes took place but I would need my list, I have at the office, to
| tell you which. If you are interested, I will give you that information.

Here it is: A list with all closed rail lines in Switzerland and with all rail
services replaced by buses. Go to files section, enter folder "Rail Network"
and here is the Excel file. If you have corrections, amendments, please post.
I will update the list from time to time.

Markus Giger


Re: SBB rail cutbacks

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <rmtomasko@aol.com>
| Is there a possibility that local rail service (not provided by bus) will
| return to the Goddard line to towns such as Wassen?

I do not think so, as the villages are not exactly at the railway stations.
But bus can go into the villages. In addition, bus service is cheaper for the
canton to order, because part of that bus line is needed anyway. So,
reintroducing trains would mean doubling the offer in a not very populated
valley.

| When the Goddard base tunnel is completed, what will be the plan for
| passenger rail service on the existing, scenic Goddard line?

As it is still quite some years away (about 13), there are no exact plans.
L�tschberg will be first (6 years away). There it is thought, that an hourly
RX or IR will desserve Frutigen, Kandersteg and Goppenstein, but probably also
M�lenen and Reichenbach i.K. I am not sure about the offer on the south side.
But if RX stops on all south-ramp stations, this train is not very attractive
for through-going tourists. This will also depend on whether trains start in
Frutigen, Spiez or Bern.

A similar thing will probably happen at the Gotthard. I am quite sure that the
"old" lines will have to be kept as backup and to make it possible to
partially close the new lines for maintenance. This concept is already true
(since 1916) for Hauenstein!

Passenger service will most likely be an RX or IR stopping at G�schenen,
Airolo and Faido. The more interesting question is, whether these trains run
Luzern - Bellinzona or just Erstfeld - Biasca.

There is still time for answers. And for more questions...

Markus Giger


SBB rail cutbacks

Bob Tomasko
 

Is there a possibility that local rail service (not provided by bus) will
return to the Goddard line to towns such as Wassen?

When the Goddard base tunnel is completed, what will be the plan for
passenger rail service on the existing, scenic Goddard line?

Thanks,

Bob Tomasko


Re: swiss rail system

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Dan Ainsworth" <pismobum@webtv.net>
| Another I am a little curious about is the Beinwil station on the 651
| line. Although the map does not show rail service between there and the
| end of the 644 line at Menziken (or Reinarch), a glance out of the
| window of the train as I went thru Beinwil looked like there probably
| was a track connection.

There was a branch line off Beinwil to Reinach - Menziken - Berom�nster. 1992
passenger service ended and was replaced with a bus service taking a slightly
different way to Berom�nster. But more important for Berom�nster (LU) has
already been for a long time direct bus service with Luzern, offered by Auto
AG Rothenburg. Reinach and Menziken (AG) have its more important way out by
WSB (meter gauge), going directly to Aarau. So all three villages have a
direct connection to the capital of their canton and Beinwil - Berom�nster
only was and is "second".

Last year, in May 2000, the federal council ("Bundesrat", the government)
approved complete closing of the line, so that WSB track can be taken out of
the street and will switch over at Reinach Unterdorf on the ex SBB grade. Its
ttrack will follow the SBB grade to Reinach and Menziken. Menziken -
Berom�nster grade is disused and will not see any rails again.

Markus Giger


Adminstrativ

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Aus mir nicht bekannten Gründen, dauert es derzeit mindestens eine halbe Stunde, bis eine abgesetzte Nachricht von eGroups weitergeleitet wird. Bitte sendet die Nachrichten nicht ein zweites Mal.
 
For unknown reasons, messages are delayed by eGroups by at least half an hour. Please be patient and do not post twice. Thanks
 
Markus Giger


Re: swiss rail system

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Hi Dan,
see my answers after your question

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Dan Ainsworth" <pismobum@webtv.net>
[...]
| ANYHOW, I was informed that no cutbacks had taken place in the Swiss
| rail system since I had previously visited (1991).
| I note that line 257 shows rail on the timetable map, but the schedule
| shows rail only from Flamatt to Laupen, and only bus service from Laupen
| to Gummenen. My 1991 schedule showed rail service the entire route.
| Any comments?

If we say, there were no cutbacks in the offer of regional traffic, it does
not mean, that everything remained as it has ever been. There were well some
changes in that trains disappeared and others appeared. The case you mention
is clear: Between Laupen and G�mmenen passenger traffic was replaced with bus
service and catenary went down, gates at road crossings were taken away etc.
It is now just a track that can be used by the diesel "tractors" of
Sensetalbahn. Their shares had recently been bought by SBB and Post, all
rolling stock will be taken over by SBB, buses by Postauto. Staff is
distributed to the two big companies. STB only remains as formal owner of
infrastructure. The town of Laupen kept -1- (one) share, so that it can be
present at the general assembly.

Other changes took place but I would need my list, I have at the office, to
tell you which. If you are interested, I will give you that information.

| Secondly, I have always been aware of the bus-bridge between the SBB and
| the Appenzellbahn at Alstatten, but had never been there and assumed it
| was not rail due to inability to bridge the gap (cliff, river,
| whatever). This trip I rode it and was totally surprised to see how it
| was laid out.
| Since there is no reason I could see that the Appenzell line could not
| come to the SBB station, there must be some "political" or "social"
| reason the tracks do not connect.
| Could one of you give me the information as to why there is no
| connecting rail line?

Altst�tten Stadt - Altst�tten SBB was a tramway of 1897, that also went to
Heerbrugg - Berneck and, 1915, Diepoldsau once. Altst�tten - Berneck was
first, in 1940, replaced with a 1000 V dc trolleybus (the other two with this
voltage were STI and ACTL) and then, in 1977, with diesel bus. Isolated
Heerbrugg - Diepoldsau tram closed in 1954. Company was called Altst�tten -
Berneck-Bahn, then Rheintalische Strassenbahn RhSt, then Rheintalische
Verkehrsbetriebe RhV and is now Rheintalbus RTB. In 1973 the last bit of rails
was taken off and thus trains from Gais could no longer go to Altst�tten SBB
(sometimes behind a tram car). Officially it was said, that only 10% of
traffic on the line was traffic to SBB. And perhaps many thoght, that the old
"Stossbahn" would disappear soon as well. They were all wrong. It was said
that service would continue as long as the 1953 ABDeh 4/4 6-8 could continue.
Then, technical services of SGA were clever enough to order the last 2 of 7
new BDeh 4/4 and ABt (1981/92) with a brake system that allows running on the
16% gradient to Altst�tten. Again, there is no need to close the line, because
there is enough rolling stock "anyway". And this, untill about 2030 or 2040.

Traffic is not important at all, but as long as there is no need for big
investments, that really nice line can continue. It opened already as electric
line in 1911 with 1000 V dc and management was by ... Rheintalische
Stassenbahn. In 1947 it merged with SGA which changed voltage to 1500 V dc (on
SGA since 1931) in 1953 on the arrival of the new motors. They were able to
run at 1000 V on tram rails and were fitted with indicators for street
running. 1988 SGA merged with AB. AB had taken over in 1947 the Appenzell -
Weissbad - Wasserauen, former S�ntisbahn (which mountain was never reached),
that had also opened as 1000 V dc tram and was then changed to 1500 V dc (on
AB since 1933).

Markus Giger


Swiss travel

Dan Ainsworth
 

since my screen truncates the email adddress, possibly it truncates others also. The direct address (without the "@") is pismobum-webtv.net


swiss rail travel

Dan Ainsworth
 

I just returned to the US from an extensive (over 100 trains - over 3000 miles) swiss rail trip. I have about 35 interested people who are receiving a day-by-day detailed travelog in email messages (3 days have gone out so far).
It is NOT meant for people who are thoroughly familiar with the swiss system, but rather for people who might be contemplating a visit in the future.
If you would like to receive these messages (you can always ask to be removed), please respond direct to pismobum@webtv.net


Transit times on the Albula line and the tobbogan run

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Might be of interest to some readers

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Giger-Baumann" <giger.baumann@smile.ch>
An: <SBB@egroups.com>
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Januar 2001 12:00
Betreff: Re: [SBB] Transit times on the Albula line and the tobbogan run


| -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
| Von: "Jason Hargreaves" <Jason_Hargreaves@pine-tree.freeserve.co.uk>
| | I am visiting the Albula valley at the end of the month for 3 days,
staying
| | at Filisur. Does anyone know the journey time to ST Moritz from Filisur.
| | We also plan to travel along the Bernina line to the Italian border.
| | Is this a long trip?
|
| Online timetable requests can be done on www.sbb.ch. Just enter Filisur and
| Tirano and the date/time you would like to travel. It is about 3 hours one
| way, but there are faster and slower connections. On www.sbb.ch is not an
| SBB-timetable but an electronic version of the official Swiss timetable
| including all trains, boats and oveland busses.
|
| | Has anyone had any experience of the Toboggan run from Preda down the
| | valley? quite fancy a go. Is is only suitable for experienced tobbogaist
| | or can anyone have a go in reasonable saftey.
|
| It is also advertised for families and you can rent a sledge at the railway
| station. I did the run once when it was a bit icy. Under such conditions I
am
| not sure to do it with children. But it depends very much on the weather
| conditions. The sledge run is only opend, if Snow conditions allow. With
good
| snow, it is a nice ride.
|
| Markus
| Switzerland rail news and discussion at
http://www.egroups.com/group/SwissRail
| Schweizer Bahn-Nachrichten und Diskussion:
http://www.egroups.de/group/BahnCH


MOB Château d'Oex Track Plan

Swiss Model Railways <chernex@...>
 

Following the success in locating a Zürich track plan, does anyone have one for Château d'Oex (MOB) for the 1960's onwards?.  The best I can do is 1913 and it has changed since then.
 
Brian Hemming


Re: Zurich track plan

Gary Klouda <Gary.Sheryl.Klouda@...>
 

Hi Andy,

1965 is just fine. Send me your personal E-mail address and we'll work
it out off-line.

Thanks,
- Gary Klouda

gary.sheryl.klouda@worldnet.att.net

Andy Micklethwaite wrote:


At 14:30 03/01/01 -0000, you wrote:
From: Gary Klouda <Gary.Sheryl.Klouda@worldnet.att.net>
To: <SwissRail@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:41 AM
Subject: [SwissRail] Lucerne and Zurich
...
I am looking for track plans of the Lucerne and Zurich HauptBahnHofs.
Can anyone on the list point me in the right direction? TIA, - Gary
Hi Gary,

I have a plan of Zurich in about 1965. If this is the era you want, let me
know. It's about 4 foot by 16 inch - I haven't worked out how I'd copy it
to you!

Regards, AndyMick.


Greetings

Brian Clough <bclough@...>
 

Hello everyone, I'm new to this group, but I've become a big fan of
Swiss railroading since seeing the "Swiss Rail Journeys" series on
PBS. I'm especially interested in standard guage main lines, such as
the SBB "Gotthard" and BLS lines.

I plan to visit Switzerland sometime in the next few years, but 'til
then I'm gathering as much information as I can online.

Markus Giger answered a few questions for me on the Rail Photo
newsgroup, and I found out about this group through his messages.

I've done some "Train Gifs" of SBB equipment, and I plan to do more
soon. If you want to take a look, check out my web site at;

http://bots.rrdepot.com

(If you don't know what Trian Gifs are, you should get the idea
pretty quickly :)


Re: Zurich track plan

Andy Micklethwaite <andy@...>
 

At 14:30 03/01/01 -0000, you wrote:
From: Gary Klouda <Gary.Sheryl.Klouda@worldnet.att.net>
To: <SwissRail@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:41 AM
Subject: [SwissRail] Lucerne and Zurich
...
I am looking for track plans of the Lucerne and Zurich HauptBahnHofs.
Can anyone on the list point me in the right direction? TIA, - Gary
Hi Gary,

I have a plan of Zurich in about 1965. If this is the era you want, let me
know. It's about 4 foot by 16 inch - I haven't worked out how I'd copy it
to you!

Regards, AndyMick.


2 E-Mail Adressen

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Some members might wish to post from different e-mail accounts. To do this, you simply have to enter your alternative e-mail adresses on your eGroups member profile (they are not visible to anybody). Go to www.eGroups.com, then
(click on:) Sign In   with your e-mail and password
(click on:) My Profile
(click on:) Edit Profile
(scroll down to:) Alternate email addresses:
Enter one email address per line, maximum 5 addresses. This option allows you to post messages (not read) from multiple accounts.
 
 
Einige Mitglieder möchten vielleicht unter verschiedenen E-Mail Adressen Meldungen absenden. Dies ist problemlos möglich, wenn man im eGroups Mitglieder Profil diese Adressen eingibt (sie sind für niemanden sichtbar). Gehe zu www.eGroups.de, dann
(klicke:) Anmelden mit E-Mail und Kennwort
(klicke:) Mein Profil
(klicke:) Profil bearbeiten
(fahre hinunter auf:) Alternative E-Mail-Adressen:
Geben Sie jeweils eine E-Mail-Adresse pro Zeile ein. (Maximal 5 Adressen.) Diese Option gestattet Ihnen, Nachrichten von mehreren E-Mail-Adressen aus zu senden.
 
Markus Giger


Re: Lucerne and Zurich

John Whitby <john.p.whitby@...>
 

Hello Gary,
In the absence of any other suggestions there are track plans of most Swiss
stations in "Schienennetz Schweiz" by Hans G. W�gli and published by AS
Verlag. ISBN = 3-905111-21-7. The diagrams are a little small but well
detailed and enlarge reasonably well. If you would like a sample scan please
contact me outside the forum.
Happy New Year to All.
John.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Klouda <Gary.Sheryl.Klouda@worldnet.att.net>
To: <SwissRail@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 5:41 AM
Subject: [SwissRail] Lucerne and Zurich


I am looking for track plans of the Lucerne and Zurich HauptBahnHofs.
Can anyone on the list point me in the right direction? TIA, - Gary


Community email addresses:
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Re: [SBB] Where does the TGV run in Switzerland

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Christian Vinaa" <egroup@vinaa.dk>
Betreff: Re: [SBB] Where does the TGV run in Switzerland
I seem to remember that there is a special TGV 'snow' train going in
Switzerland from geneve to martigny-sion-brig in the winter months ??

was that only a one year wonder ?
No, but a Saturday-only operation from Jan 6 thru Apr 14. It runs to Brig,
arriving 13.56 and restarts at 17.04. It is also one of the 110-118 trainsets.
Thus TGV Lutetia Paris - Z�rich is a daily except Saturday run.

Markus


Re: [SBB] Where does the TGV run in Switzerland

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Shane G Deemer" <sdeemer@austin.rr.com>
Betreff: [SBB] Where does the TGV run in Switzerland
| I will be in Switzerland in February, and would like to see the TGV. Where
| in Switzerland does it run / stop?

TGV run
to Gen�ve (entering Switzerland at La Plaine)
to Lausanne (entering Switzerland at Vallorbe)
to Neuch�tel - Bern - Z�rich HB (entering Switzerland at La Verri�re)
The last one is the only run where it is possible to ride a TGV within
Switzerland.
In Gen�ve you will find two-system (bi-courant) TGV, the rest needs additional
equipment (tri-courant), so only trainsets 110-118 can be seen. Train 112 is
owned by SBB. All are now blue (were orange before).

Markus Giger


Lucerne and Zurich

Gary Klouda <Gary.Sheryl.Klouda@...>
 

I am looking for track plans of the Lucerne and Zurich HauptBahnHofs.
Can anyone on the list point me in the right direction? TIA, - Gary


Schweizer Eisenbahn-Revue 12/2000

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Schweizer Eisenbahn-Revue 1/2001 has just arrived.
Besides some international news, Swiss topics, most with high-quality colour pictures, are (in alphabetical order!):
  • ADtranz – Bombardier merger delayed by Brussels commerce commission.
  • ADtranz Swiss-built (last of Tramont!!) Talgo 350 locomotive "el pato" (the duck) reaches 300 km/h on Madrid – Sevilla.
  • BLS tests DB 185 001and 003 on top of 3300 t train. It shows that power of these locomotives is 5.6 MW (instead of 4.2 MW indicated untill now).
  • BT "Gold-Express" for ski fans (world championship 2001-01-29 thru 2001-02-10) Uznach – St. Gallen – St. Anton am Arlberg (AT), Re 456 093 got special paint for this.
  • FO 14th investment bill secured, worth CHF 13.9m, allows rebuild of Brig narrow gauge station trackwork (already under construction).
  • GFM, now TPF, with sugar-beet extras.
  • Hupac with first Taurus locomotive 1116.901, two more to follow (no indication of future use of these locomotives).
  • JBH decides to maintain WAB on full length and orders 4 more JB trainsets like 211-214
  • JBH WAB modernisation of Grindelwald – Kleine Scheidegg. A train every 30 min needs 3 compositions with higher maximum speed in 25% than BDeh 101-124. One composition can be formed with two of the existing BDeh 4/8 131-134 with an additional 6-axle driving trailer of BDt 241-244 type. Two compositions to be formed each of two new ZGTW 4/8 141-144, seating 2+2, width 2.3m. Double track Brandegg – Rohr and longer passing loop in Strättli also needed. Total investment CHF 47m. Annual energy consumption to be reduced from 8 GWh to 6.5 GWh thanks to regenerative braking of new trainsets.
  • LEB going to Lausanne Flon since May (connection with TSOL and LO)
  • LSE now with four Alpine Liners B 81-84 ex 41-44 of 1964
  • MBS (AT) ET 10.109 and 110 on first test runs in Bussnang (MThB)
  • MODALOHR (FR) new piggyback car for low clearance
  • MThB and SBB interested in German IR Karlsruhe – Konstanz
  • MThB Re 486 054 tested on SOB
  • OeBB will loose most passenger trains starting June 2001, replacement by busses [SER is wrong to blame OeBB for this as it is a decision of Canton Solothurn]
  • RhB Vereinatunnel gets light for emergency way out
  • RM Re 436 113 starts work on SBB Gotthard route after beeing fitted with ZUB and radio; other four (111, 112, 114, 115) to follow, maintenance will be done in Erstfeld.
  • S-Bahn Zentralschweiz (Luzern) to start in 2004
  • SBB actually only has two regular trains per day with remote controlled Ref 460 (out of 21 Ref 460), but more locomotives are to follow
  • SBB CEO decides green cargo locomotives to become red again
  • SBB changes Cargo management
  • SBB IC 2000 Bistro car introduced
  • SBB IC 2000 fire of 2000-10-17 with only little damage but fault in wiring detected. This caused wrong ventilation to stop after smoke was detected. Thus smoke was blown in passenger compartment.
  • SBB new paint for EW IV A 10-75 065, B 21-75 038 and Bt 28-94 905
  • SBB NPZ with Bt 29-34 921 on top collided in Courtelary with Tem" 295 and two freight cars (2000-12-05, 08.19 h)
  • SBB NPZ with Bt 29-34 923 on top and AB 39-35 047 behind collided in Lyss with shunter (2000-12-08, train 4301)
  • SBB opened Adlertunnel between Muttenz and Liestal (7134 m of new line, 5345 m in tunnel)
  • SBB opened maintenance center and layover-yard Zürich Herdern (24 tracks)
  • SBB plans new Zürich HB underground station connecting Wiedikon (and possibly Altstetten) with Örlikon, rails will be at 392.0 m level [Zürich HB track 21-24 = 393.9 m, track 1-2 SZU = 395.9 m, track 3-18 = 407.6 m]
  • SBB plans to buy 29 ICN, 110 or 120 IC 2000 cars and motor coaches, 43 Bt EC/EW IV and to rebuild 35 EW IV A into AD
  • SBB RAe TEE will probably be refurbished in ÖBB HW Wien Florisdorf
  • SBB S3 collision in BLS Bern Weissenbühl of 1999-11-01: engineer found guilty and punished with 2.5 months
  • SBB settled with unions about salaries
  • SBB signal box Baden not safe (fault detected, speed limit 40 km/h since Nov 2)
  • SBB/KLB/IGG standard gauge tracks Luzern – Kriens – Horw
  • SIG sells its interests in "Fiat-SIG Schienenfahrzeuge AG" which will probably become "Alstom Schienenfahrzeuge"
  • SOB Am 846 461 (SER again writes 864 461) in commercial use Baden – Zürich Mülligen for Post
  • SVB gets CHF 19.4m from Canton to buy 15 Combino trams (total cost 43.6m)
  • TPC to further reduce tramway timetable in Bex
  • US Thrall Car Manufactory Company to open office in Winterthur
Markus Giger