Date   

Re: ZB - New ADLER & FINK usage to date - query

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 02.11.2012 11:19, schrieb Don:
With the phased introduction of the new units now underway, can
anyone advise if a pattern of usage has emerged yet? Based on one
ADLER and two FINK units available (I assume), is there an Adler set
covering one of the Luzern-Interlaken diagrams regularly, if so does
this vary or is it a fixed daily diagram? Also, how widely have the
FINK/s been used to date and on what services, if this is known or
has it been observed? Any confirmations or sightings would be
appreciated, thanks.
Due to partial closure for works since 22 Oct, it is still very much on a day-to-day basis. ADLER was used for trains NOT GoldenPass, FINK for just anything including trains to Engelberg, but more often for Meiringen - Interlaken.

For the service now limited to Sarnen, the ADLER was reported to do even hours 55 from Luzern, odd hours 55 being a SPATZ with additional coaches/driving trailer. A FINK plus two SPATZes are doing all trains Meiringen - Interlaken, with a De 110 jumping in when maintenance is due.

SPATZ = 130
ADLER = 150.1+3+2
FINK = 160

I assume that once a couple of the ADLER sets are accepted into
traffic, the two 101 locos 'released' from the IR services will
enable the 110 power to be parked up at Meiringen and
stored/withdrawn. So, this position could be reached early in 2013.
Finally, I am correct that the two 130 units used on the R
Interlaken-Meiringen section will remain as now and the use of a FINK
would be a substitute either on an R working, within an ADLER
'combination' or simply covering for an ADLER IR service in an off
peak period?
The FINKs are thought to do anything necessary. They will replace SPATZes, parts of an ADLER and cover evening/off-season IR on both lines, Interlaken and Engelberg. I don't know if Meiringen - Interlaken will remain in the hand of two SPATZes. I could imagine that this service would be covered with what is available but I don't know and ZB might even change their plans if they are already established...

Markus, G�rbetal


Administrative

OL.Guerbetal
 

Some services of Yahoo are temporarily unavailable. This might delay some messages. Please don't resend. Thank you.

Markus


Re: narrow gauge freight

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 02.11.2012 12:44, schrieb Don:
2. As well as the sugar beet traffic, I noted log wagons been
transferred to/from the SBB standard gauge at Yverdon. Where are the
logs loaded on the TRAVYS branch, please and is there any other
freight handled and where at present? Ste-Croix, Baulmes and
Essert-sous-Champvent are still listed for wagon load traffic, I note
in addition to Vuiteboeuf.
Waste from Ste-Croix is transported to Lausanne TRIDEL siding.


Golden Pass Panoramic ADLER - Query

Don
 

While editing and uploading a selection of images following my recent visit to the Zentralbahn that can be viewed at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/

I cannot recall seeing any reference to an ADLER unit carrying the Golden Pass Panoramic branding. Will the ZB simply drop the branding of the services or just not carry the branding through to a train livery?

Have a good weekend All,

Don
Message submitted at 20:58 2/11/2012


Re: A first and last look at Luzern's Barrier Line

john_dmj
 

On 01/11/12 23:40, Guerbetaler wrote:



An important difference between four-rail and three-rail operation is
this: On four-rail the centre of a standard gauge wagon, a narrow gauge
wagon and of a standard gauge wagon on transporter truck is the same. On
three rail track, the centre of a standard gauge wagon is 217.5 mm to
one side (= 435/2) it needs more free profile.
Also, the shared rail wears more quickly than the other two so requires
higher maintenance! The four-rail system overcomes this.

J


Re: A first and last look at Luzern's Barrier Line

George Raymond
 

In the course of three days and nights of work on
December 8-12, the tunnel's two tracks will be connected to those running
through Kriens-Mattenhof station and the Barrier Line definitively
severed.
Correction - make that November 8-12.

George


Tram track closures in Geneva

Martin Baumann <martinbaumann112@...>
 

According to the new issue of the Swiss Quarterly magazine TRAM the Chene-Bourg branch will close at the December 2012 timetable change as will Augustins loop. The last tram ex Chene-Bourg will be 0024 on the Sunday morning but belonging to traffic day December 8th. Augustins loop is not passenger track but is used to short turn westbound cars on the 12

Martin Baumann


Re: narrow gauge freight

Don
 

Reading again this earlier topic and my posts in early October following my visit to west Switzerland (Sugar Beet), some questions:

1. The TRAVYS sugar beet loading was being undertaken at Vuiteboeuf. Are there any other locations used for such loading on the branch active in 2012 does anyone know?

2. As well as the sugar beet traffic, I noted log wagons been transferred to/from the SBB standard gauge at Yverdon. Where are the logs loaded on the TRAVYS branch, please and is there any other freight handled and where at present? Ste-Croix, Baulmes and Essert-sous-Champvent are still listed for wagon load traffic, I note in addition to Vuiteboeuf.

3. The RhB used to handle standard gauge cereal hoppers from Landquart to Grusch, but this ceased a while back. The only other standard gauge wagon moves I have seen otherwise have been salt silo wagons to and from Thusis. Is that the only such transporter traffic still handled does anyone know?

Thanks in anticipation.

Don
Message submitted 11:46 a.m. 2/11/2012

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, Guerbetaler <muesche2-swissrail@...> wrote:
standard gauge wagons on narrow gauge transporter wagons:

TRAVYS Yverdon - Ste-Croix
RhB (soon to end)


ZB - New ADLER & FINK usage to date - query

Don
 

With the phased introduction of the new units now underway, can anyone advise if a pattern of usage has emerged yet? Based on one ADLER and two FINK units available (I assume), is there an Adler set covering one of the Luzern-Interlaken diagrams regularly, if so does this vary or is it a fixed daily diagram? Also, how widely have the FINK/s been used to date and on what services, if this is known or has it been observed? Any confirmations or sightings would be appreciated, thanks.

I assume that once a couple of the ADLER sets are accepted into traffic, the two 101 locos 'released' from the IR services will enable the 110 power to be parked up at Meiringen and stored/withdrawn. So, this position could be reached early in 2013. Finally, I am correct that the two 130 units used on the R Interlaken-Meiringen section will remain as now and the use of a FINK would be a substitute either on an R working, within an ADLER 'combination' or simply covering for an ADLER IR service in an off peak period?

Thanks in anticipation.

Don
Time message sent 10:20 a.m. 2/11/2012


Re: A first and last look at Luzern's Barrier Line

OL.Guerbetal
 

I have never had a clear answer as to why the Luzern - Eichwald section was built as four-rail instead of three-rail track. The first section of this track was opened for traffic on 29 April 1897 and was only about 500 m. This system then allowed to enter and leave the narrow gauge track without points. And the standard gauge rails belonged to Kriens-Luzern-Bahn. Owner of the narrow gauge was at that time the Jura-Simplon (JS).

1899 KLB was bought by the city of Luzern and JS became part of Swiss Federal Railways in 1903. New owners were thus a city and a state.

1943 the track was continued from Eichwald to Zeughaus (arsenal).

1973 the connection to Kriens from Eichwald was closed and the trains now went to R�sslimatt, the place where the separate standard gauge track is.

1997 the operation was sold from the city of Luzern to a new KLB cooperation.

By the end of 2009 the operation of KLB ended. The track Luzern - R�sslimatt was sold to ZB. R�sslimatt - Kupferhammer closed, Kupferhammer - Kriens had already be torn up in 2004.

ZB also bought the standard gauge R�sslimatt - Horw which had been built as a private siding (using public railway site!!)

These days the last bit of the old KLB will loose traffic. The new ZB standard gauge Luzern - Horw will be formed of a new three-rail track and the former private four-rail track to Horw.

An important difference between four-rail and three-rail operation is this: On four-rail the centre of a standard gauge wagon, a narrow gauge wagon and of a standard gauge wagon on transporter truck is the same. On three rail track, the centre of a standard gauge wagon is 217.5 mm to one side (= 435/2) it needs more free profile.

Markus, G�rbetal


A first and last look at Luzern's Barrier Line

George Raymond
 

Yesterday, October 31, I took photos along the Barrier Line between Luzern
and Kriens-Mattenhof, which will soon be replaced by a tunnel. My thanks go
to Steve (stephenhorobin@yahoo.com) for the post here that alerted me to
this.



The name Barrier refers to the line's four level crossings of busy city
streets. For a schematic of the Barrier Line and the new tunnel, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzern%E2%80%93Stans%E2%80%93Engelberg-Bahn.



As it leaves Luzern station, the Barrier Line is a single, four-rail track
that accommodates both the Zentralbahn's meter-gauge passenger trains and
SBB's standard-gauge freight service, which extends south past
Kreins-Mattenhof to Horw. All four rails are shiny.



Just south of Luzern station, the Barrier Line turns sharply to the west and
passes over the new line, which disappears here into the north portal of its
tunnel. As it makes its way through the city, the Barrier Line passes over
four streets on level crossings. I never had to wait long for a train. Road
traffic does do a lot of waiting. This must be one of the busiest
single-track routes anywhere. Snow left from an unusual October snowstorm
enhanced the scenes.



Just south of a fifth level crossing, for pedestrians, at a Yamaha
dealership (see Google Maps), the standard-gauge track diverges (without
catenary) from the narrow gauge so as to run parallel and just to the west.
It formerly served some industries here. Immediately after, a high-speed
unilateral turnout splits the narrow gauge track into two.



North of the Kriens-Mattenhof station, the standard-gauge track re-enters
the west narrow-gauge track. Immediately north of Kriens-Mattenhof is the
new tunnel's south portal. In the course of three days and nights of work on
December 8-12, the tunnel's two tracks will be connected to those running
through Kriens-Mattenhof station and the Barrier Line definitively severed.
(I imagine, however, that the Barrier Line will remain accessible from its
northern end during salvage operations over the coming months.) While I
waited at Kriens-Mattenhof for the S-Bahn back to Luzern, a new
standard-gauge SBB Cargo diesel locomotive (one of the Vosslohs I think)
came through, southbound.



To allow this freight service to continue, the tunnel's west track is also
dual gauge. The main rationales for the new tunnel seem to be eliminating
the grade crossings, faster running times, a new, underground station called
Allmend, and a second track for more operational capacity and stability.



Any corrections or additions to this text are welcome.



Someone surely knows: why is the dual-gauge track on the Barrier Line
four-rail? And why is the dual-gauge track in the new tunnel only
three-rail?



Thanks,

George


Re: Zb Interlaken services

Don
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, Guerbetaler <muesche2-swissrail@...> wrote:

All this is nice but we only have to hope that none of the
4 restaurant coaches ever needs repair ...
Just catching up with some back-reading. The ZB contingency plan could be a trolley, maybe? Cheers, Don


Permanent closure of stations on 08.12.2012

Martin Baumann <martinbaumann112@...>
 

The following stations will close permanently:
 
CJ Table 236
 
BELLEVUE    KM 40.27
LE SEIGNAT  KM 36.36
 
ASm Table 413
 
HINTERES RIEDHOLZ KM 5.24
 
ASm Table 414

KLEBEN            KM 4.84


Re: Print at home tickets

Krist van Besien
 

On Oct 31, 2012, at 5:56 AM, "George Raymond" <geor@bluewin.ch> wrote:


Online purchase can also help if you are arriving in Switzerland by
international train, have a close, non-ticketed connection and are not sure
you will be able to figure out the ticket machine fast enough.
I've been using the SBB iPhone app for ticket purchases quite a lot recently. The advantage for me is being able to buy a ticket that includes bus travel before arriving at the station. The ticket machines are very good, but not every trip starts at a point where there is one with the full assortment...

Krist


Re: Print at home tickets

bs177@...
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon" <gordonwis@...> wrote:

SBB print at home:

Apologies if this has already been mentioned.
SBB ticket shop now sells online print at home tickets (caveat – I
haven't tested this with a purchase)
When I went over in the summer, I bought and printed off A-Welle Day passes, and tickets from the boundary of the Basel Mobility Ticket to Tecknau with no problems for the first day. Tickets for subsequent days were bought in the normal way the day before. I dont think anyone looked at them, I seem to recall that you had to be able to present the credit card used to buy them and a passport to confirm that you were indeed the purchaser.

Cheers

bruce


Re: Print at home tickets

George Raymond
 

I have always found the ticket machines in SBB stations so numerous, fast
and easy to use that I never bothered looking into the online purchase
option for trips within Switzerland.

Online purchase could, however, be useful for someone arriving in
Switzerland by air: on October 1st I was at Zurich airport in mid-morning
and saw long lines in front of both the SBB ticket windows and the SBB
ticket machines.

Online purchase can also help if you are arriving in Switzerland by
international train, have a close, non-ticketed connection and are not sure
you will be able to figure out the ticket machine fast enough.

George


Re: Print at home tickets

DAVID STEVENSON
 

I have used this about five years ago and it worked fine. It's been there for a few years.
DS


Canton Vaud rover ticket:

gordonwis
 

Canton Vaud rover ticket:

As part of planning my November trip I have been studying the Mobilis Tariff region (Canton Vaud).
This is potentially useful for anyone arriving at Genève, although the tariff is complex and divided into a huge number of small zones. The (the zones are very small so the zone by zone tickets are I suspect only useful for local people doing specific shorter journeys.

Basically, a day pass (valid to 05.00 next day) covering 15 + zones (ie effectively the `all zone' version) costs CHF50 (CHF25 for half day card holders). This will cover you for the main routes ie:
Coppet – Lausanne
Lausanne – Vevey – Montreux - Villeneuve
Lausanne – Yverdon – Gorgier St Aubin
Lausanne – Palezieux – Payerne
Payerne – Yverdon
Yverdon – Ste Croix
Biere – Apples – Morges
Nyon – La Cure
Lausanne – Vallorbe – Le Brassus
Orbe – Chavornay
Lausanne – Bercher (LEB)
Montreux – Les Avants

Pleasingly, the website clearly states that what you need to buy in advance to extend your journey across the tariff zone border, ie:

Montreux-Aigle in an IR not stopping at Villeneuve: ordinary ticket Montreux-Aigle (ie a Villeneuve – Aigle ticket is NOT valid)

Nyon-Genève in an RE calling at Coppet: ordinary ticket Coppet Genève. As the REs take longer to cover Lausanne – Geneve – (but not excessively so) this is much better value than:

Lausanne-Genève in a non-stop IC: ordinary ticket Lausanne-Genève

Sadly, nothing is shown (no agreement in place?) covering extending beyond Gorgier St Aubin to Neuchatel. (Neuchatel belongs in tariff region `Onde Verte' which is not terribly useful as it covers few long stretches of main line.)


Print at home tickets

gordonwis
 

SBB print at home:

Apologies if this has already been mentioned.
SBB ticket shop now sells online print at home tickets (caveat – I haven't tested this with a purchase)


Re: Coach door locks...

bty506661
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, Guerbetaler <muesche2-swissrail@...> wrote:

Am 24.10.2012 21:42, schrieb bty506661:
All this mention of coaches has reminded me of something I noticed
when in Swissworld recently.... Some of the older opening window
coaches on the Gotthard IR trains have had the old red lever latching
door gubbins replaced with a push button affair that opens the door
and lowers the step. Certainly an improvement over the old set up
which sometime took some effort to open, but is it going to be fitted
to all, and does it extend their lifespan? (Also was it imposed on
SBB after an incident or is it something that has been planned?)

( I actually don't know the 'correct' designation for these vehicles,
A photo is always the best way...

They are generally known as Bpm51 or then as Bpm Z2 RIC but with the
alterations that are made, they loose the RIC sign and become B 50 85
21-73 xxx It isn't yet clear how these coaches should be referred to
after the renumbering. However, for number-crunchers I may add that the
new coach number xxx does not correspond to the old one.

Originally two [SER 1/2012] and then three [SER 7/2012] different sorts
of refit have been defined:

60 coaches will get an R3 and can be used at least until 2018.
- rust remediation
- electrification of the doors
- side selective opening with UIC-18-pole cable
- emergency brake request (to avoid braking in a tunnel)
- new walls and roof interior
- new upholstery and carpets
- ep-cable
- new livery

110 coaches will get an R2 to be used another four years.
- rust remediation
- electrification of the doors
- side selective opening with UIC-18-pole cable
- emergency brake request (to avoid breaking in a tunnel)
- new upholstery

24 coaches will become B(pm)FC 50 85 21-73 501-524 with windows blocked
for a mximum opening of 20 cm

The push button isn't imposed but the side selective opening is (which
could be realized maintaining the "red lever latching door gubbins").
This requires 18-pole UIC cable.

In a first step, SBB had announced to fit the coaches with air-condition
but finally had to admit that these coaches won't be used long enough to
really allow such an investment. Especially when you take into account,
that the toilets would have remained what they are...

SBB also takes other steps to get more air-conditioned seating in second
class by rebuilding the remaining, not yet refurbished
50 A EW IV to B 50 85 20-75 601-650. They seem to show up in diagrams as
B4(78) as they will offer 10 x 8 -2 = 78 seats, according to the 10
windows, with one seat left out besides the entry. Unlike railways in
the rest of Europe, SBB doesn't put the seats in a defined
"class-distance" (which would allow 86 seats) but puts them fitting the
windows!

compartment B EW IV = 1868 mm
compartment A EW IV = 2055 mm

The same level of comfort is offered by the Bpm EC and Bt IC.

Thanks for that, most interesting.
Neil

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