Date   

Re: BLS Units Query

Krist van Besien
 

On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Don <dongatehouse@gmail.com> wrote:
Have been editing and uploading a few images taken on BLS lines and came across the splendid looking RBDe 566 EMUs:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/8462201613/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/8461709119/in/photostream/

I assume they still operate on the Thun-Solothurn RE services but can anyone advise of if that is the case and also where else is it a good bet to see these old units in day to day service? Plus, are they still in the red livery as I doubt BLS would have plans to refurbish them?
According to the BLS they are still in service, but will be withdrawn this year:

http://www.bls.ch/e/bahn/charter-fz-rbde566I.php

Krist


--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bern, Switzerland


Re: Just a few pics

Fionnbarr Kennedy
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, Guerbetaler wrote:

The sun isn't shining 365 days a year. I like impressions from Winter,
from the night etc. Your photos are lovely.

Thank you! Terrible light or not it was fun taking them (& wonderful to be back in Switzerland)


At the caption of this photo

I had a little smile. Well, I have to explain why.
Isn't language just wonderful? :-) It's what makes it all fascinating. Thanks for the explanation! (Don't get me started on Irish - it is so idiosyncratic it is almost impossible for machine translations to work at all...)


Had a wonderful episode when staying in the Froshinn (which will be familiar to many on this list). It was the start of Karnival and after the marching band we had a play from a group of local ladies (more a series of skits on some of the village "characters"). They were delighted to see 2 people from Ireland there and made sure we were included but it was (of course) in Swiss German, And heavily accented And much of it sung.... So I was lucky to get one word in 4! Was able to talk to them afterwards between my bad "standard" German and their normal Swiss German - all in all a great evening


Cheers all

Fionnbarr


BLS Units Query

Don
 

Have been editing and uploading a few images taken on BLS lines and came across the splendid looking RBDe 566 EMUs:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/8462201613/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/8461709119/in/photostream/

I assume they still operate on the Thun-Solothurn RE services but can anyone advise of if that is the case and also where else is it a good bet to see these old units in day to day service? Plus, are they still in the red livery as I doubt BLS would have plans to refurbish them?

Thanks in anticipation.

Don


Withdrawn Re 4/4 II (was Re 4/4 II 11116 )

martinbaumann112 <martinbaumann112@...>
 

The 11282 collision mentioned was with Ae 4/7 10906 (also withdrawn; 30.11.1975) on 30.10.1975 [11282 withdrawn 31.12.1975)

Apart from 11282 11323 and 11382 Re 4/4 II withdrawn due to accidents:

11113 Collision Zürich Oerlikon 24.10.2003 withdrawn 03.08.2004

11172 Withdrawn after accident at Vaumarcus 09.12.1978 (+31.12.1978)

11184 Withdrawn after Olten accident 06.10.2011 (+14.09.2012)

11312 Withdrawn (along with Ae 4/7 10940+11011) after collision at Degnes-Echadens 14.09.1985 (+31.10.1985)

11169 was damaed in a highspeed derailment at Bern Bümpliz Süd 20.09.1982. It had to have major repairs including a new body

Martin Baumann 10.02.2013


Re: Re 4/4 II 11116

csipromo
 

As far as I could recollect, the lok caught fire between Rodi-Fiesso and Faido.
As far as fire, 11282 was destroyed in a fire that followed a collision with an Ae 4/7 near Chur in 1975.

There have been a number of transformer (Stufenschalter) fires that have required repairs, but have not resulted in the locomotives being beyond repair.

Regards

Mike C


Re: Re 4/4 II 11116

martinbaumann112 <martinbaumann112@...>
 

So far there have been no reports on the condition of 11116.

There have been quite a few fires on Re 4/4II Although the first series locos (11101-11155) seem to have had quite a few fires none have been written off as a result. Thhere have only been two withdrawn due to fire damage:

11323
fire damage between Arth Goldau and Steinen 23.03.2005
withdrawn 01.06.2005

11382
fire damage 31.01.2002 withdrawn 02.07.2002

Location for 11382 incident given as "Levintina". I have never been able to establish the exact location, but it would appear to be in the vicinity of Airolo

Martin Baumann 10.02.2013


Re: Just a few pics

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 09.02.2013 00:11, schrieb disco1ie:
http://finniesphotos.zenfolio.com/p126308270

has a few pics - the second page has pics from last week - awfull,
zero light etc but in case they're of interest. The 1st page has
some form a brief visit last August. In case anyone is interested!
The sun isn't shining 365 days a year. I like impressions from Winter, from the night etc. Your photos are lovely.

At the caption of this photo
<http://finniesphotos.zenfolio.com/p126308270/h40c07562#h40c07562>
I had a little smile. Well, I have to explain why. It is true that we Swiss put a genitive s in the middle of many combined words. While a German says Zugnummer (train number), we say Zugsnummer. A train accident is a Zugungl�ck in Germany but a Zugsungl�ck in Switzerland. But more and more, with modern auto-correction features, journalists tend to write Zugungl�ck...

Now, there are some words where the s in the middle is not used and one such word is Bahnhofplatz :-)

How could you know? You can't, because even Google brings you some Swiss sites with "Bahnhofsplatz". But if you look closer, you will see, that the text of this site only has the odd word in the title, but not in the following text. German is a difficult language, even for native German speakers :-)

<http://www.blogarchiv.hochparterre.ch/presseschau/testplanung-zum-autofreien-berner-bahnhofsplatz.html>

But the official designation is always "Bahnhofplatz".

Not easy, I know...

Markus, G�rbetal


Re: BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing

csipromo
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bolton wrote:

You claimed "there are professional fare evaders" as a justification
for the new SBB behaviour.
I remember being on an IC2000 train (double deck) in 2003 when I spotted two SBB Police Inspectors who seemed intent on catching some fare evaders. The inspectors would go from coach to coach and there were a bunch of youths who would evade them by going to the lower level and when the inspectors went down, they would go back up on the other side of the coach and move to the next coach.
I was very curious why the SBB inspectors did not simply split up and each go down at opposing ends of the coach, or why, if they were not supposed to split up, were only one pair assigned to complete this task, which would have required at least an additional pair of officers in that case.

So, it may be a case of "professional" fare evaders, but I have also seen some rather "keystone cop" behaviour on the part of the inspectors. Do the new rules improve this situation on the train today? If they are still chasing the fare evaders like that most of the day, I doubt it.

Regards

Mike C


Just a few pics

Fionnbarr Kennedy
 

Hi all

currently experimenting with photo hosting.

http://finniesphotos.zenfolio.com/p126308270

has a few pics - the second page has pics from last week - awfull, zero light etc but in case they're of interest. The 1st page has some form a brief visit last August. In case anyone is interested!

Cheers all

Fionnbarr


Re: BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing

Krist van Besien
 

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Heléna Moretti
<helena.moretti@btinternet.com> wrote:

Inspector R: Ah, you really need to have a passport with you in future for this ticket to be valid. Now do you have any other form of photo identification, ah yes, a driver's licence, I can see the name on ticket matches the one on that license and that the picture is you. Have a wonderful stay in Switzerland and don't forget to bring your passport with you next time.
Now which Inspector has done the best job for SBB? In the short-term, Inspector K took the old English pair to the cleaners for a CHF350, I bet he felt good.
I don't think he felt good. SBB conductors aren't like that.


Inspector R however has probably ensured that the couple return again, with a potential spend not just of CHF 500 for their passes but also a similar sum in food, twice that in accommodation and more rosy tales of friendly staff amongst the stunning Alpine scenery. These two scenarios reflect the reality of that day, the second scenario was close to that of the guard who checked our tickets as we left Locarno, he accepted alternative documents without problem. The first scenario matched closely the attitude of the guard who checked the tickets as we pulled out of Luzern.

So in the case of the guard when you pulled out of Luzern you offered
alternative documents, and they were not accepted? What were they?
Because I don't think that passports are a requirement to get a Swiss
Pass. Otherwise people without passports couldn't get them. But a
proper photo ID probably is.

Krist

--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bern, Switzerland


Re: BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing

bs177@...
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, tudoryork wrote:

We have known for many years that you should have your passport available at all times when travelling on a Swiss Pass.
Whilst I understand the reasons behind Helena's spirited defence of the two OAP's, I quote from the rear of the map supplied with my Swiss Pass for 2002 "Dear passenger................ Please sign your ticket and present it to the conductor with your passport".

Where I would agree with both Helena and Markus is that the way such situations should be handled needs to be formalised and designed to avoid the PR failures we have heard about.

Firstly (and there is plenty of room on the back of the map - and I am referring to a 2002 map - the 2013 one might be different) it should be stated that the ticket is not valid without the passport, and should state clearly what the penalties are for not having a passport with you.

Secondly, it would seem sensible to adopt the same procedure as with the forgotten GA, if the passenger presents the passport at any ticket office with the excess tickets and the Swiss Pass, the excess fare will be refunded less CHf 5.

Perhaps those with contacts within SBB might suggest this when the map is next reprinted.

Cheers

bruce


Re: BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing

Bill Bolton
 

On Fri, 8 Feb 2013 09:13:35 +0100, Krist wrote:

And how should this be done, in your opinion? SBB conductors don't
have lie detectors on them.
You claimed "there are professional fare evaders" as a justification
for the new SBB behaviour.

"Professional" (whether 'professionell', 'fachmännisch' or
'notorisch') implies they are doing it constantly - you don't need a
lie detector to identify *constant evaders* and there are a whole host
of simple processes and technologies that can be applied, *as the
police do regularly* with respect to misdemeanours.

I don't think many ordinary citizens are being unjustly punished here.
It's clear what your strongly-held-belief is, but it also clear from
looking at a number of Swiss community forums that a lot of "ordinary
citizens" (who are trying to hard to abide by the rules) are now being
fined in circumstances beyond their reasonable control.

It's also clear from looking at travel forums that a tourists are
starting to become alienated towards Switzerland through this, as they
think they have followed the directions of SBB adequately (as implied
through web sites and the behaviour of automated ticketing systems,
etc) but are none-the-less being fined by SBB.

Always be very sceptical of what you read in the newspaper or hear on
TV.
Or read recently in community forums, or what good friends recently
tell you etc etc.

The stories that are being related are too pervasive and consistent in
nature to be flicked away with cliches and faux rationalisations ("if
they tell a good story"). <rolls eyes>

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia


Re: BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing

tudor erich
 

We have known for many years that you should have your passport available at all times when travelling on a Swiss Pass. Several times we have had the full performance of ticket, check the second part, passport, where are you going etc.
 
Never occurred to us not to play by the stated rules.
 
Mind you, given the usual very cursory check of the ticket, often not even looking at it, I have often wondered if proferring a Swiss Pass from a previous trip would satisfy most conductors...
 
Bernard


Re: Re 4/4 II 11116

Heléna Moretti
 

Is the damage severe enough to spell the end of 11116? I must admit, much as I love the Re4/4", they do seem to have a rather bad habit of catching fire. That must be the fourth or fifth that has torched itself to death.

bah! 


________________________________
From: Guerbetaler <muesche2-swissrail@yahoo.de>
To: SwissRail@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2013, 16:05
Subject: Re: [SwissRail] Re 4/4 II 11116


 
Am 07.02.2013 12:09, schrieb martinbaumann112:
11116 was damaged by fire at Uznach yesterday while working train
2423 (1440 Luzern-Romanshorn).
... meaning that the locomotive was at the head of the train and the
driver on the loco. (I say this because there had been disputes between
SBB and SOB because of the use of SOB driving trailers with SBB
locomotives.)

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing

Heléna Moretti
 

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Heléna Moretti

helena.moretti@btinternet.com> wrote:
"As for the debate on the strict application of the new penalty fares for Swiss transport users, to place such a rule in the hands of mere mortals is a little unfair of the authorities. They ask their inspectors to judge a stranger or hide behind a rule book when it is plain to see what the easiest course of action is. The aim is to stop fare dodgers and save taxes, the principle that results is that you (as a passenger) are totally responsible for ensuring you have a valid ticket and all the supporting documents you need before you step on a train. The result of strict adherence to the rule and its principles are you alienate many to punish the few".
Krist replied:
"I don't understand what you are getting at with the above paragraph. I think it is very fair to the conductors that they are no longer required to make difficult judgement calls, and can just apply the
rules. Let customers service debate with the passengers. I doubt that the strickt application will alienate many, as people are quite used to having tickets before boarding the train. The rule already existed for local trains".
My point is:...
To explain my point I return to the old couple who I believe were badly treated... for many years it has not been compulsory to take your passport with a Swiss Pass, if it was, it was never enforced. Only recently have ticket staff begun to ask to see them. This old couple had been to Switzerland many times over many years, but not since the introduction of this check. The purpose/aim of the check is to stop the passes being handed between different people, they are "not negotiable", only one person (the one named on the ticket) can use it. The principle is that to ensure this, a valid passport should be produced to show the ticket inspector that the pass and the person belong together. Now let us look at two possible responses a ticket inspector could have to finding this old couple, both with correctly dated Swiss Passes but bereft of the passports to go with them.
Inspector K: He says, "Well it is your responsibility to read the regulations, your ticket is not valid without a passport. Penalty Fare and full fare payable, hope you enjoy the rest of your stay in Switzerland, Ker-ching! If you want to claim redress write to customer services, the address is on the internet and its not my fault if you don't use modern technology or understand German".
Inspector R: Ah, you really need to have a passport with you in future for this ticket to be valid. Now do you have any other form of photo identification, ah yes, a driver's licence, I can see the name on ticket matches the one on that license and that the picture is you. Have a wonderful stay in Switzerland and don't forget to bring your passport with you next time.
Now which Inspector has done the best job for SBB? In the short-term, Inspector K took the old English pair to the cleaners for a CHF350, I bet he felt good. Inspector R however has probably ensured that the couple return again, with a potential spend not just of CHF 500 for their passes but also a similar sum in food, twice that in accommodation and more rosy tales of friendly staff amongst the stunning Alpine scenery. These two scenarios reflect the reality of that day, the second scenario was close to that of the guard who checked our tickets as we left Locarno, he accepted alternative documents without problem. The first scenario matched closely the attitude of the guard who checked the tickets as we pulled out of Luzern. 
That, was my point.
The aim of ensuring the ticket belonged to the person named on the ticket was satisfied in scenario R, the policy of Italian hotels (& some in the Ticino of CH) who retain passports overnight is as much an issue as the intransigence of the SBB ticket Inspector.
Regards
Helena







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Re: Baggage Security on Trains (was BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing)

Krist van Besien
 

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Don <donnewing@me.com> wrote:

For Some years now when traveling by train I have used a small combination lock with an extending wire loop (available from many travel goods shops), and lock my bag to the rack (admittedly not possible in some types of carriage, but certainly possible in Swiss double deck IC stock).
I do the same thing. Works because a would be thief has only a few
seconds to get your bag and get out. Anything that slows him down is
sufficient.

Krist

--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bern, Switzerland


Re: BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing

tudor erich
 

Thank you,
 
Bernard


Baggage Security on Trains (was BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing)

Don Newing
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, Andy Micklethwaite wrote:

Switzerland (without border checks - unlike Eurostar!) has entered the modern world.

Regaining a reputation is much harder than losing it.
Andy.
For Some years now when traveling by train I have used a small combination lock with an extending wire loop (available from many travel goods shops), and lock my bag to the rack (admittedly not possible in some types of carriage, but certainly possible in Swiss double deck IC stock). If traveling with more than one bag, just lock the two bags together, making handling them together very difficult. While not proof against a thief armed with wire cutters, it will certainly persuade an opportunist thief to chose a different bag!

Don Newing


Re: BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing

glenn allen
 

From: Andy Micklethwaite
Switzerland (without border checks - unlike Eurostar!) has entered
the modern world.
<http://travelblog.dailymail.co.uk/2013/01/blog-thefts-can-happen-anywhere-even-on-swiss-trains.html>
Regaining a reputation is much harder than losing it.
Something from the bottom of the article :

The Swiss ticket inspectors took pity on Chris and didn't charge him for
his return train to Bern when he explained his situation. But he is now
all too aware that, however sad it is, we really do now need to be
every bit as vigilant on Swiss trains as we are on our own or any other
rail network in the world.

Hmm, how come he didn't get fined? ;-)

And, nice picture at the top, not in keeping with the article, that's an RhB train at Morterasch heading for St Moritz.

I remember reading a story about chance thieves over at Zweisimmen, or nearby, would watch tourists get on a train, see them get off to take a photo, and would nip on to steal their luggage. I don't think crime is a new thing in Switzerland.


Re: BBC commentary on Swiss Railway Ticketing

Andy Micklethwaite
 

Switzerland (without border checks - unlike Eurostar!) has entered the modern world.
<http://travelblog.dailymail.co.uk/2013/01/blog-thefts-can-happen-anywhere-even-on-swiss-trains.html>
Regaining a reputation is much harder than losing it.
Andy.

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