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Re: Wipkingen line and the Durchmesserlinie

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 06.06.2013 16:23, schrieb Chris:
I don't really see why trains stopping in the Durchmesserlinie
platforms will be any less in the connection node than those in the
main hall.
Because being in the connection node means
- to bring in passengers for connecting trains, at least 7 min before these trains leave the station
- to pick up passengers from connecting trains, at least 7 min after these trains have arrived at the station

This system allows for one or two trains to stop less than 7 min. But the idea of the underground station was that trains leave again as fast as possible.

Do you understand the dilemma?

Markus, G�rbetal


Re: Leased locomotives

Andrew Moglestue
 

Here is a VERY old question. On one of my first trips to Switzerland in 1994 when the 460's were first introduced, I got a chance to sit in the cab of one. On the door behind the driver there was a small plaque that stated
the locomotive was leased to the SBB by a company in Delaware, USA. Are these locomotives still under lease or were that bought out by the SBB after the lease period ended?
They were always fully owened by SBB.
 
What you are referring to is a lease and lease back arrangement.
Under these arrangements, banks in Delaware would seek out plant in Europe that they could lease and that they would then lease back to the owners. The transaction was entirely on paper and had no operative implications
 
The arrangement may sound totally pointless, but it exploited some tax loophope in US law that permitted these banks to save heaps of money in taxes, and some of the money saved would be shared with the plant owner. SBB thus presumable leased them back for less than they leased them out for.
 
With tax loopholes having since beeen closed, most of these arrangements have been terminated.
 
Andrew

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Leased locomotives

John Lovda
 

Here is a VERY old question. On one of my first trips to Switzerland in 1994 when the 460's were first introduced, I got a chance to sit in the cab of one. On the door behind the driver there was a small plaque that stated the locomotive was leased to the SBB by a company in Delaware, USA. Are these locomotives still under lease or were that bought out by the SBB after the lease period ended?

John Lovda


Re: Wipkingen line and the Durchmesserlinie

Chris Wood
 

Max Wyss wrote:

From what I read, they will still reverse long distance trains
passing through Oerlikon in the main hall. Keep in mind that with
the reversing, it is possible to maintain the connection node, as we
have it now. Any line running through will no longer be full part of
the connection node.
That is a different picture to what I've understood from previous posts here. I was almost imagining a main hall where the main users would be TGVs, ICEs, RailJets, CNLs and other assorted international trains, with most of the domestic long distance traffic going down the tunnel.

I don't really see why trains stopping in the Durchmesserlinie platforms will be any less in the connection node than those in the main hall. They will presumably be pretty well underneath the main hall, and connected to the same pedestrian passages, so the walking distances shouldn't be much different. And, from bitter personal experience, a lot less than an interchange involving one of the existing platforms 51-54.


Re: Wipkingen line and the Durchmesserlinie

Max Wyss
 


Wipkingen will be served by the S24 which will run Oerlikon-Horgen
Oberdorf via reversal in Zürich HB
Thanks for that. But IMHO two trains per hour doesn't seem too appealing
for an inner-city station, especially one in a city also served by ZVV's
dense network.
Don't forget that the bus line 46 (running every 7.5 minute or even more
frequently) has a stop in the vincinity of the train station, and there are
more important local network stops nearby. That's why this 30 minutes
service is kind of tolerable (the direct connection to the airport was
however quite convenient).


Looking at current timetables, it seems that the only regular long distance
trains that run via Oerlikon and terminate in Zurich are those from
Stuttgart. All the other long distance services through Oerliken reverse
and continue at Hauptbahnhof, and can therefore be expected to use the new
underground route.

So the line is likely to end up with about 3 trains per hour per
direction. Again rather sparse for what was once a busy main line. And
there are alternative routes. I guess anywhere else but Switzerland, we
might be worrying about a closure proposal.
From what I read, they will still reverse long distance trains passing
through Oerlikon in the main hall. Keep in mind that with the reversing, it
is possible to maintain the connection node, as we have it now. Any line
running through will no longer be full part of the connection node.

Max.


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Re: Wipkingen line and the Durchmesserlinie

Andrew Moglestue
 

I don't believe the Wipkingen line is treated with much priority. There are still sections of jointed track on the viaduct. and Wipkingen station istelf seems to have been passed over as far as refurbishments are concerned. I still see a fair number of people using the station, but for many people a walk or bus ride to Hardbrücke may be more meaningful. The line is not really of much use for freight either, as I believe you cannot run through to anywhere without reversing.
 
I don't think this line will be a candidate for closure however. The approaches into HB have been rebuilt in recent years, with the old bridge across the tracks being replaced by a modern one. And who knows, as S-Bahn traffic grows further, addirional servives may start using this line again.

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Re: Wipkingen line and the Durchmesserlinie

Chris Wood
 

"martinbaumann112" <martin98baumann@...> wrote:

Wipkingen will be served by the S24 which will run Oerlikon-Horgen
Oberdorf via reversal in Zürich HB
Thanks for that. But IMHO two trains per hour doesn't seem too appealing for an inner-city station, especially one in a city also served by ZVV's dense network.

Looking at current timetables, it seems that the only regular long distance trains that run via Oerlikon and terminate in Zurich are those from Stuttgart. All the other long distance services through Oerliken reverse and continue at Hauptbahnhof, and can therefore be expected to use the new underground route.

So the line is likely to end up with about 3 trains per hour per direction. Again rather sparse for what was once a busy main line. And there are alternative routes. I guess anywhere else but Switzerland, we might be worrying about a closure proposal.

There will probably be crossovers enabling a routing from the new
underground platforms to the Wipkingen line but there are no
scheduled movements doing this. I expect this is to minimise
conflicting moves.
There is no obvious huge conflict, as both the Wipkingen line and the
Durchmesserlinie accesses are on the same (southern) side of the station. Although there may be more local conflicts that are not currently clear.

I'd imagine that the lack of scheduled movements is more due to the lack of traffic wanting to do an excursion from Oerlikon to Oerlikon via Hauptbahnhof and a lot of tunnel. :-)

Although to be fair, such a link could be used as a large turning loop, if required.


Re: Wipkingen line and the Durchmesserlinie

Martin Baumann
 

Wipkingen will be served by the S24 which will run Oerlikon-Horgen Oberdorf via reversal in Zürich HB

Provisional timetable: http://www.fahrplanentwurf.ch/fileadmin/fap_pdf/2014/800_S24.pdf

There will probably be crossovers enabling a routing from the new underground platforms to the Wipkingen line but there are no scheduled movements doing this. I expect this is to minimise conflicting moves. Crossovers exist to do most movements at Zürich but not all are scheduled for use. For instance you can go from platform 17 to the lines towards Thalwil but would block the entire station doing such a move

Martin Baumann


Wipkingen line and the Durchmesserlinie

Chris Wood
 

The recent discussion on Zurich Hauptbahnhof platforms 51-54 caused me to take a closer look at the station approaches on Google Maps, and raised a question as to what usage the Wipkingen line will see once the Durchmesserlinie is fully open.

As best I can see from Google, there is no route from Wipkingen into the existing S-Bahn tunnel. Platforms 51-54 will be gone, so trains from Wipkingen cannot go there. There may or may not be a route into the new Durchmesserlinie tunnel, but even if there is a routing from Oerlikon to Oerlikon doesn't seem very useful. That just leaves terminating or reversing in the main line surface platforms.

At present all the regular S-Bahn services that currently serve Wipkingen (S2/S8/S14) reverse in surface platforms before continuing to Wiedikon. But reversing trains seems contrary to the concept of the Durchmesserlinie, and I assume these trains will run from Oerlikon via the Durchmesserlinie. And it seems that the through long-distance trains will do likewise.

Which doesn't leave much to run down the Wipkingen line, or to serve Wipkingen station. Does anybody know what the plans are for this line.


More Tangos for BLT

Don Newing
 

The British railway trade magazine Railway Gazette reports that BLT has ordered a further 19 Tangos for delivery during 2014-2016.

See http://tinyurl.com/oswxxsg

Don Newing


Re: New GEX concept

Don Newing
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, Andy Micklethwaite <andy.mick@...> wrote:
Today's Railways (Europe) has an article detailing MGB investment plans, which mentions upcoming upgrading and resulting closures of the Furka Base Tunnel. It doesn't detail what will happen to the GEX during these closures.
The Glacier Express web site http://tinyurl.com/7ox9cqc states that the Glacier Express will not run between 28 October and 14 December. No sign of a timetable after 14 December.

Don Newing


Re: New GEX concept

Andy Micklethwaite
 

At 20:38 04/06/2013, Guerbetaler wrote:
So the passengers will be bussed over the pass as is the case with
Oberalp closures.
Thanks Markus
Andy.


Re: Switzerland Trip Report April 24th to 30th 2013 & Hotel Frohsinn up for sale

Jonathan Lee
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, bs177@... wrote:

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <shovell9107@> wrote:
Evening

See below link for my trip report, including gen, for a recent trip
to Switzerland. A fantastic trip.

There was plenty of Re420/421 action, some MGB moves, a trip to
Gornergrat and the bonus of the trip was having an Re430 on the
Gotthard Line after a failure!
Sounds like we were following each other round, got the same soakings and both stayed at the Good Night Inn!

See message 19637 where Martin posted on my behalf that 11206 had failed at Erstfeld. I must have walked right past you at Goschenen . Having to wait 25 mins there for the next train to Brig, I went up the end of the platform and took photos.

Cheers

Bruce
Sorry for the late reply Bruce, been in Cuba/Brazil.....

I do remember walking past someone on the platform at Goschenen, who'd been taking photos of the same MGB train leaving as I was. Must have been you.

Cheers for confirming 11206 was the culprit for the Re430 coming out. Wonder if it went back on on the return????

Cheers

Jonathan (Shovell)


Re: New GEX concept

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 04.06.2013 13:46, schrieb Krist van Besien:
Actually diversion over the DFB would be possible. The DFB recently aquired
a relatively modern (former FO) Diesel locomotive.
The HGm 4/4 wasn't acquired but hired. This is possible during Summer months as MGB's "building season" is rather off-season. But the HGm 4/4 can no longer pull a GEX over a longer distance, because they have lost their HEP equipment.

Am 04.06.2013 17:32, schrieb Gordon:
Not only that but RhB is about to take delivery of its new big diesel
locomotives
.. without cogwheels, however.

So the passengers will be bussed over the pass as is the case with Oberalp closures.

Markus, G�rbetal


Re: Bad weather disruption

Martin Baumann
 

In fact SBB have been able to reopen the line this evening for long distance trains and freight. Local passenger trains will resume tomorrow


July freight traffic levels

gordonwis
 

For various reasons, I have not been able to take a trip to Switzerland in my usual May/June slot so far this year. I have always tried to fix my short trips (as opposed to full length summer holidays) in May/JUne as the best combination of long days and good traffic levels, for fear that freight levels drop once the summer holiday period starts.

Before the 2008 financial crisi I don't think this was too mcuh of a problem but these days things might be different.

What is the likely situation this coming July. If I was to plan a trip for early July would I miss the 'normal' freight traffic levels?

Any advice welcome.


Re: New GEX concept

gordonwis
 

Not only that but RhB is about to take delivery of its new big diesel locomotives


Re: New GEX concept

Andy Micklethwaite
 

At 12:46 04/06/2013, you wrote:
Actually diversion over the DFB would be possible. The DFB recently aquired
a relatively modern (former FO) Diesel locomotive.
Thanks Krist - interesting!
Andy.


Re: New GEX concept

Krist van Besien
 

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Andy Micklethwaite <
andy.mick@googlemail.com> wrote:

Today's Railways (Europe) has an article detailing MGB investment plans,
which mentions upcoming upgrading and resulting closures of the Furka Base
Tunnel. It doesn't detail what will happen to the GEX during these
closures. I assume diversion over the DFB is not possible :-)
AndyMick.

Actually diversion over the DFB would be possible. The DFB recently aquired
a relatively modern (former FO) Diesel locomotive.

Krist



--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bern, Switzerland


Zürich HB Platforms 51-54 (was Re: SBB 2014 timetable changes)

Martin Baumann
 

I emailed the project team for the Durchmesserlinie who confirm that all four of these platforms will remain in service until 14.06.2014. The clearance under the temporary bridge must be sufficient for trains to run. (Test trains and driver training is due to start in December)

Martin Baumann

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