Date   

Re: ETR470

Martin Baumann
 

Correction, that diagram is SBB, sorry for the mistake


Re: ETR470

Martin Baumann
 

SBB ETR 470-002 worked 1825 Milano-Zürich (EC 22) yesterday, 12.04.2015. This train is scheduled to be an FS set


Re: Zug Station (was Interesting diversions on 11+12 April)

csipromo
 

To the best of my recollection, photo 81-019 shows track 4 at Arth-Goldau, which is used for trains coming from and going to Zug/Thalwil/Zurich as well as for SOB shuttle trains ending at Arth-Goldau Station. For a while, that platform was also used by the SOB for S-Bahn trains from Zug to Erstfeld.

Based on the map that Markus posted in the files section, I now understand that the misunderstanding was over my use of the word junction to describe the coming together of the two lines (on adjacent platforms) at the south end of the station and Markus; interpretation of that word to mean the precise location where the two lines physically merge, which is to the north end of the station.


Technically, we were both correct. Zug Bahnhof is essentially a junction station and that is what I was referring to as opposed to the actual physical junction.


Regards


Mike C


Re: Summer steam

Martin Baumann
 

Provisional:

29.11.2015 ex BLS Ae 4/4 251 trip to Einsiedeln details on www.extrazug.ch nearer the time


Re: Summer steam

Martin Baumann
 


Re: Interesting dversions on 11+12 April

Martin Baumann
 


Re: Zug Station (was Interesting diversions on 11+12 April)

Martin Baumann
 

The platform numbering at Zug changed at some point, presumably when the rebuild was finished in 1990 See photo SBB-81-019 near the bottom of

http://www.polier.ch/page/archiv/Sutter/normal/SBB/80/SBB.81.htm


Re: Interesting dversions on 11+12 April

Max Wyss
 

I am still confused as to what this argument is all about and I don't
know if Markus and I are even talking about the same thing.
All of my comments have been in reference to the line coming from
Zuerich-Altstatten via Affoltern am Albis that joins the
Luzern-Zug line just north of Cham and then joins the Thalwil-Gotthard
line at the south end of Zug Station.

The problem is that the line from Steinhausen joins the line from Cham not
_North_ of Cham or Zug, but East of Cham and West of Zug. The line between
Cham and Zug runs roughly East-West (well, to be precise, if it were a
runway in an airport, it would be 10-28). The platforms for Cham and
Steinhausen are in a relatively sharp curve. The Cham/Steinhausen head of
the station is facing West.

The line between Baar and Zug, and ahead to Walchwil runs roughly North -
South.

The junction (or tip of the wedge) is north of the Zug station.

Well, things around Zug are a bit complicated… may have to do with the lack
of Rötel and the excess of Kirsch… (just kiddin').


As I stated in my post, the connection from Steinhausen to Walchwil
essentially became obsolete with the opening of the Heitersberg line.

Max.


Re: RhB 702

Martin Baumann
 

702 worked RE 1358 1646 St Moritz-Landquart today


Re: Interesting dversions on 11+12 April

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 11.04.2015 um 19:30 schrieb csipromo@yahoo.com [SwissRail]:
I am still confused as to what this argument is all about and I don't
know if Markus and I are even talking about the same thing. All of my
comments have been in reference to the line coming from
Zuerich-Altstatten via Affoltern am Albis that joins the Luzern-Zug
line just north of Cham and then joins the Thalwil-Gotthard line at
the south end of Zug Station.
The problem is about the fact, that the junction is NOT at the South end of Zug Station.

Please have a lookt at map.geo.admin.ch(ZugStation).pdf which is in the folder

<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SwissRail/files/SBB/>

Direct access to the PDF ... if Yahoo will allow it ...
<https://xa.yimg.com/df/SwissRail/map.geo.admin.ch%28ZugStation%29.pdf?token=U7hyshCcYW_9tplQGa1rnlCXcCWH6nINfoKm6GPRN2k-Rc4gD2m1njjsksb_9DrYYiCKiwkNOzQmR169MvWkoX185EgWQFkN6_Pp8qhorjzh0RBxoTzjcWWk4mZ2kwFIV8xaQEZrmA&type=download>

This PDF is from the official map site of the Swiss confederation. Only blue text and arrows are added. North is at the top and South at the bottom.

Markus, G�rbetal


New file uploaded to SwissRail

SwissRail@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the SwissRail
group.


File : /SBB/map.geo.admin.ch(ZugStation).pdf
Uploaded by : guerbetal <guerbetaler@sunrise.ch>
Description : Situation of Zug station and junction of the lines from Cham and Affoltern am Albis with the Thalwil - Gotthard line


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SwissRail/files/SBB/map.geo.admin.ch%28ZugStation%29.pdf


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


guerbetal <guerbetaler@sunrise.ch>


Re: Zug Station (was Interesting diversions on 11+12 April)

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 11.04.2015 um 19:03 schrieb martin98baumann@outlook.com [SwissRail]:
Track 1 is now a bay platform leading to Baar only. Was it at one
time a through platform?
Unfortunately Google isn't able to distinguish Zug and Zug, or in English Zug and train. Thus I can't find older pictures of the Zug station. But if I'm not mistaken, the situation was like this:

There was only one platform on the Gotthard side of the station. A second track only had a small platform or rather a train entry help step. So passengers had to cross the track at the platform to get to the small platform of the other track. And there was no third track.

map of 1989
<http://map.geo.admin.ch/?X=225223.17&Y=681822.76&zoom=9&lang=de&topic=ech&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo.pixelkarte-farbe&catalogNodes=457,458&layers_timestamp=19891231&time=1989&layers=ch.swisstopo.zeitreihen>

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: ETR470

csipromo
 

Are the withdrawn trainsets being scrapped or are they being transferred to Trenitalia as reserve for their fleet?

Regards


Mike C


Re: Interesting dversions on 11+12 April

csipromo
 

I am still confused as to what this argument is all about and I don't know if Markus and I are even talking about the same thing. All of my comments have been in reference to the line coming from Zuerich-Altstatten via Affoltern am Albis that joins the Luzern-Zug line just north of Cham and then joins the Thalwil-Gotthard line at the south end of Zug Station.

I only lived in Switzerland for a year as a child, but during that time, we were frequent visitors to the Aegeri and Zug areas. Before making my first post, I consulted google maps to trace the line, but, as I have stated, I followed the line only as far as the junction north of Cham and forgot that the loop at Zug had been eliminated, thereby preventing Gotthard bound trains from being able to use the Affoltern route without having to reverse direction at Zug.


I am not trying to argue with Markus, only to understand what he is talking about and to get a better understanding of the current network.


Hopefully, we can one day all get together over a Zuger Kirschtorte and laugh about how we seem to have misunderstood each other.


Regards


Mike C


Zug Station (was Interesting diversions on 11+12 April)

Martin Baumann
 

Track 1 is now a bay platform leading to Baar only. Was it at one time a through platform?


ETR470

Martin Baumann
 

The last SBB scheduled ETR470 working was today: 1225 Milano-Zürich EC 30016 ETR470-009. However the set has now gone on loan to FS and will continue to run between Zürich and Milan for FS until August. This is because the FS sets, which will remain on the route until December 2016, need to have ETCS refitted to work over the Gotthard route and they will be out of service one at a time forthis to be done


Re: Question about restored historic locomotives.

John Lovda
 

Thanks Mike: I saw 10997 sitting on an industrial siding behind a factory next to the mainline Gotthard tracks in Brunnen, I believe. It looked beautiful so I knew it was special.


John


Re: Interesting dversions on 11+12 April

Max Wyss
 

The line from Affoltern joins the line from Luzern to Zug just north
of Cham and then joins with the Thalwil-Gotthard line (in a
northbound direction) just south of Zug station. The junction
technically is part of Zug Bahnhof with tracks leading towards Cham
and others towards Walchwil and Arth-Goldau.
Max! HELP! Would you be so kind and tell our dear Mr. Mike C. where
"South of Zug station" is? He doesn't believe me...
Max is an "Aboriginal Säuliämter" so he really knows the area.
Markus, Gürbetal, desperate

Dear csipromo: First and foremost, experience has shown that it is rarely a
good idea to annoy the moderator(s) of a forum <g>.

Anyway, I don't really care about North, East, South and West, when it
comes to the Bahnhof Zug. Zug can be reached from 4 directions:

• Baar (from Zürich-Thalwil-Sihlbrugg),
• Cham (from Luzern-Rotkreuz)
• Walchwil (from Ticino-Gotthard-Arth-Goldau)
• Steinhausen (from Zürich-Affoltern a/A… that's the Säuliamt-line).

Zug station is a wedge station, where the point of the wedge is on the Baar
side of the station. Tracks 1 to 3 lead to Walchwil, and tracks 4 to 7 lead
to Cham. How the connection to Steinhausen is made, we'll see below.

We have to make a difference between the situation before the
reconstruction of the Bahnhof Zug, around 1990 and after.

A) Before reconstruction:

The line from Steinhausen turned parallel to the line from Cham, about
halfway between Cham and Zug (that place had a stop in the really olden
days, and is called Kollermühle (a place infamous for decades because of
the nightclub nearby). There was no connection; what looked like a double
track was not; it was two parallel single track lines. After about a
kilometer, some 800 m or so before the line from Cham entered the station
area, the line from Steinhausen deviated in a 90 degree curve, and formed a
loop passing by the Zug station, and joining the line from Baar near the
locomotive shed.

The following connections were possible without changing of direction:

Baar - Walchwil
Baar - Cham
Steinhausen - Walchwil
Steinhausen - Cham

Cham - Walchwil was not necessary, because the Südbahn line makes the
connection between Rotkreuz and Arth-Goldau. However, from the really olden
days, there was a connector between Cham and Steinhausen, but that one was
rarely used anyway, and cut when the N4a highway (nowadays A4a) was built.
This connector was officially (nick)named "Sumpfgleis" (swamp track).

Steinhausen - Walchwil became more or less obsolete with the Limmatal
Classification yard and the Heitersberg line, routing freight through
Killwangen-Spreitenbach - Othmarsingen - Rotkreuz - Arth-Goldau, which had
the advantage to be double tracked all the way.


B) After reconstruction:

The reconstruction of the Bahnhof Zug occurred together with several line
upgrades in context with the S-Bahn Zürich (and later with the Stadtbahn
Zug). The line from Zug to Cham was double-tracked, where one track was
using the line from Steinhausen. In order to build a proper double track,
and to simplify the layout, and speed up the trains from Steinhausen, a
proper junction was built at the Kollermühle, and with that, the loop
became obsolete (and was therefore dismantled).

This now led to the following possible connections:

Baar - Walchwil
Baar - Cham
Baar - Steinhausen


Alle Klarheit beseitigt?

Max (not an aboriginal Säuliämtler (to get that status, you have to be
Citizen of one of the villages in the Säuliamt, and your family had to live
there for a few generations). It was my father moving to my long-time home
town, but he never applied for the local citizenship (by the time it would
have made a difference, the eligibility for scholarships for the gymnasiums
and universities got changed from citizenship to residency). Nevertheless,
I spent the biggest part of my life in the Säuliamt.

Max.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Summer steam

Mark Pichowicz
 

Once again I have (finally) put together a list of all the steam/heritage running events that I know of for Switzerland this year. Please feel free to offer any corrections/amendments/additions. I know as always that there are many more events going on that aren't widely advertised that are missing from my list as this is only what I can find form a couple of hours of internet searching.

Anyway the list is here:
http://www.swissheritagerailways.com/calender.html

Hopefully this will be of use to someone on here.

Thanks,
Mark


Re: Interesting dversions on 11+12 April

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 10.04.2015 um 19:40 schrieb csipromo@yahoo.com [SwissRail]:
The line from Affoltern joins the line from Luzern to Zug just north
of Cham and then joins with the Thalwil-Gotthard line (in a
northbound direction) just south of Zug station. The junction
technically is part of Zug Bahnhof with tracks leading towards Cham
and others towards Walchwil and Arth-Goldau.
Max! HELP! Would you be so kind and tell our dear Mr. Mike C. where "South of Zug station" is? He doesn't believe me...

Max is an "Aboriginal S�uli�mter" so he really knows the area.

Markus, G�rbetal, desperate

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