The more I read this thread, the more I don't understand it. The link in the original post talks about two new seven car ADLERs. So I assumed that meant four three-car power units, and two separate intermediate trailer cars, as with the current ADLERs.

Martin Baumann then writes:

The Adler units will be 151 011 and 151 012 and will not have a Bistro car

So does that mean that the new Adlers will only be six cars long. Or will they still have an intermediate trailer car, but it just won't contain a bistro.

Krist then writes:

I assume they could also be used to replace a half set from a Luzern - Interlaken express Adler.

Which could be read as suggesting that what is on order ('they') are just two three-car power units (obviously you couldn't replace half a Luzern - Interlaken express set with a whole seven car 151).

Can anybody clarify?.

Monday to Friday
1
Loco and 5 coaches
ECS Basel-Dagmersellen
ECS Dagersellen-Olten
17042 06:36 Olten-Basel 07:17

2
Loco and 4 coaches
17313 04:46 Basel-Olten 05:25
ECS Olten-Sissach
17046 07:47 Sissach-Basel 08:17
17082 16:46 Basel-Delemont
ECS Delemont-Laufen

3
Loco and 4 coaches
17057 07:12 Laufen-Basel 07:42
17067 17:26 Basel-Stein Säckingen 17:54
ECS to Basel

Note that the standby trains (Dispozüge) at Zürich, Basel and Bern are now formed of 460 and EWIV pushpull though the Basel commuter sets mentioned above are still used occaisionally as a Dispozug

In the current timetable only trains 20026 and 20067 are a LION set, all other S20 are now 450

On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 19:13, Guerbetaler <guerbetaler@sunrise.ch> wrote:

Am 19.02.2020 um 18:54 schrieb Martin Baumann:

(150 001 would refer to the whole 7 section unit)

(but this number isn't written on the units)

As an example of part of an Adler working:
06.01.2016 2922 Luzern-Interlaken 150 103+150 303+160 004

The disadvantage of this configuration is the cab of 160 004
facing 150 303. This prevents passengers of the FINK to visit the Bistro
or to be served by the Bistro waiter.

Which is why one can hope that if one of the 150 units needs to go to
the workshop they in the future replace it with a 151, and not a
160...

Krist


--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bern, Switzerland

Am 19.02.2020 um 18:54 schrieb Martin Baumann:

(150 001 would refer to the whole 7 section unit)

(but this number isn't written on the units)

As an example of part of an Adler working:
06.01.2016 2922 Luzern-Interlaken 150 103+150 303+160 004

The disadvantage of this configuration is the cab of 160 004
facing 150 303. This prevents passengers of the FINK to visit the Bistro or to be served by the Bistro waiter.

In a future Engelberg train without Bistro this disdavantage wouldn't be important.

Markus

The Bistro Car is a separate coach and there have been occasional instances of 6 car units running as the Bistro was being serviced or repaired.

The Adler Sections are numbered 150 10x (3 units) 150 30x (Bistro) 150 20x (3 units)

(150 00x would refer to the whole 7 section unit)

As an example of part of an Adler working:

06.01.2016 2922 Luzern-Interlaken 150 103+150 303+160 004

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 11:49 AM, Krist van Besien wrote:

I assume they could also be used to replace a half set from a Luzer -
Interlaken express Adler. Currently I often see them replace one half of an
Adler with a Fink…

An Adler has 7 units, what is half an Adler, 3 or 4 coaches?

Rgds, Thomas.

On Feb 18, 2020, 13:16 +0100, Martin Baumann <martin98baumann@outlook.com>, wrote:

The Adler units will be 151 011 and 151 012 and will not have a Bistro car, they are intended to work the majority of trains to Engelberg. The Fink units will be 161 021 to 161 027.

I assume they could also be used to replace a half set from a Luzer - Interlaken express Adler. Currently I often see them replace one half of an Adler with a Fink…

Krist

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that the following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the SwissRail@groups.io group.

• /Loco Hauled Diagrams/Swiss Diagrams 2019 - 2020/bls 2019-2020.doc

Uploaded By: Keith Hookham <keith47424@...>

Description:
BLS loco hauled diagrams 2019 - 2020

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

Does anybody have the RhB lokturnus for this day and will share please?
Many thanks,
Bernard

The Adler units will be 151 011 and 151 012 and will not have a Bistro car, they are intended to work the majority of trains to Engelberg. The Fink units will be 161 021 to 161 027.

GGB have ordered 5 2 car units from Stadler. They will replace 3041 to 3043 and 3019 to 3021. The new units will be capable of working in multiple with the 3051 and 3081 types and be designed by Pininfarina who did the Re 460 among others.

Am 17.02.2020 um 01:57 schrieb gordonwis via Groups.Io:

in fact 2041 - 2043 were one of my favourite EMUs anywhere - there
was just something about them - they had a slightly different
appearance to many Swiss metre gauge vehicles so stood out

I wondered in which way they stood out. I collected some faces to compare. Starting with the 1939 RhB ABe 4/4 501-04 many motor coaches were built in a basically similar design. Width of the vehicle made a rather narrow or a wide appearance, the window could be high or not so high. In many cases the windows had a rubber frame, many others didn't have. And the edges wer slightly rounded.
<https://groups.io/g/SwissRail/album?id=241366>

Markus, Gürbetal

Am 17.02.2020 um 01:57 schrieb gordonwis via Groups.Io:

2. Please remember to take into account British railway terminology.

Oh yes, I do. I bought the Ian Allen and later Platform 5 booklets
since the 1970ies.

MGB 21 - 24 are not ‘EMU’ to most British railway people. The most accurate term for them in UK railway English is probably ‘motor luggage van’

I often use the term motor luggage van for the MGB Deh. However, motor
luggage vans are always listed under EMUs in British booklets.

but like the SBB 450s they look and act like locos

However, SBB's 450s are officially classified as locos and their luggage
compartment has been out of use for many years. Initially the doors had
been painted like other doors (of the coaches) but now they no longer carry a special colour.

and slightly fall into a ‘muddy’ area of terminology because when coupled up to a set of coaches they would probably be termed ‘power car’

Power car would be another appropriate term, but this still isn't a
locomotive :-)

In UK railway parlance, EMU refers to an almost permanently fixed
set of two or more coaches whereby you would very rarely (if ever)
see the power car separated from the rest of the set to be parked in
a shed or to move around as a single vehicle.

For many years this was the case for all 15 Deh that now belong to MGB,
as there had been a driving trailer for each Deh available. This changed
with two Bt 2251-52 often used with HGe 4/4" and finally with the new
concept of modules B-ABt added to the Visp - Andermatt trains.

For a long time there had also been fixed consists, e.g.
51-4251-4252-4151
52-4253-4254-4152
etc.
And they have different couplers within the set.

This is quite different to how 21 - 24 are used. They are frequently
uncoupled from stock and go into a shed on their own as happens at
Disentis and Glisergrund. It is quite likely that the next set of
coaches that they would then couple up to would be different. This
would never happen with a British ‘EMU’ - as I mentioned last April
22 was in Glisergrund sitting on its own like a locomotive (see
photo) then within a few hours had been coupled up to a ‘loco hauled'
set of coaches.

No, when in use as power car they are never uncoupled anywhere else than in the workshop. But as most Swiss motor coaches they are quite powerful and can thus be used for other purposes.

Interestingly the development was mostly from motor coaches in near locomotive use towards a pure power car function, as could be seen with SBB RBe 4/4 or BT/SOB BDe 4/4 or even RhB ABe 4/4. But it's the opposite with MGB who, after the arrival of the HGe 4/4" started to use some Deh as locomotive like.

Today mostly two of 21-24 work as EMU with 2253-54 and two work as locomotive replacements. Recently also one or two ex-FO Deh were seen working single.

Markus, Gürbetal

1. OK I missed out one key word : I should have typed ‘Komet EMUs’ as I am fully aware of the older EMUs - in fact 2041 - 2043 were one of my favourite EMUs anywhere - there was just something about them - they had a slightly different appearance to many Swiss metre gauge vehicles so stood out.

2. Please remember to take into account British railway terminology. MGB 21 - 24 are not ‘EMU’ to most British railway people. The most accurate term for them in UK railway English is probably ‘motor luggage van’ but like the SBB 450s they look and act like locos and slightly fall into a ‘muddy’ area of terminology because when coupled up to a set of coaches they would probably be termed ‘power car’

In UK railway parlance, EMU refers to an almost permanently fixed set of two or more coaches whereby you would very rarely (if ever) see the power car separated from the rest of the set to be parked in a shed or to move around as a single vehicle. This is quite different to how 21 - 24 are used. They are frequently uncoupled from stock and go into a shed on their own as happens at Disentis and Glisergrund. It is quite likely that the next set of coaches that they would then couple up to would be different. This would never happen with a British ‘EMU’ - as I mentioned last April 22 was in Glisergrund sitting on its own like a locomotive (see photo) then within a few hours had been coupled up to a ‘loco hauled' set of coaches.

There will be no trains from 21:30 19.07.2020 until start of traffic 14.09.2020 due to engineering work.

The Zürich-München EC trains will not run during this period.

[moderator's note: This mail has been edited. See remakrs below]

Here is another recent circulation of photos from my friend Mario Stefani,
a keen railway photographer. Most of his circulations are of modern day
Swiss trains, with a significant percentage shot near to his home in Boudry
south of Neuchatel. Often trips take him to the Lotschberg, the Gotthard,
the RhB and MOB. From time to time he will send out photos from his
collection of slides dating from the 80s through to the 00s. If any member
of the group would like to join his daily circulations please send him a
request by email. He is a french speaker but has an understanding of
English. Alternative you can find them on Facebook under "Engine Railtrack"

Dixie Dean

[We have limited attachments in our group to 500 KB. This is why I have moved the photos attached to the photo section of the group. You find them under this link: <https://groups.io/g/SwissRail/album?id=241302> - apart from some not railway-related stuff.]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mario STEFANI <mario.stefani1946@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 7:57 PM
Subject: 15-02-2020
To:
Hello Bonsoir,
Le 15-02-2020
Après la Bourse de Peseux Bernard est venu tester une rame TALGO
Ensuite on va sur le FO des grandes années
Vidéo de la rame de Bernard:

[the video is private and can't be accessed. Please only post public stuff.]

Mario STEFANI
Rue Oscar Huguenin 3
CH-2017 BOUDRY
I Will Always Love You
Email Adress : mario.stefani1946@ <mario.stefani1946@bluewin.ch>gmail.com
Facebook : Engine Railtrack

Am 16.02.2020 um 11:15 schrieb tudor erich via Groups.Io:

Does anyone know what the provenance is of the RhB information Haribu provides?

no, and he won't tell you

Is he/she an RhB emplyer in the right place to record such inforamation

yes, he works in Landquart

or a very keen observer of things RhB?

also

Markus

Does anyone know what the provenance is of the RhB information Haribu provides? Is he/she an RhB emplyer in the right place to record such inforamation or a very keen observer of things RhB?
Bernard

In my count this toatals 5

Thank you again, Markus