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Re: (Former) Swiss ICE-1 sets

Guerbetaler
 

Am 21.08.2020 um 21:57 schrieb 43096:
It appears that DB are starting a modification programme on ICE-1
sets 72 to 90 to make them German only
The ICE1 would need some updates and DB doesn't want to make these, as they don't plan to use the ICE1 in Switzerland any more. Without the update, the rest of the equipment is of no use and is therefore removed.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

gordonwis
 

infringement of personality.
Just to clarify 'personality' isn't the correct English word to use here. The phrase should be 'personal rights' or equivalent


(Former) Swiss ICE-1 sets

43096
 

It appears that DB are starting a modification programme on ICE-1 sets 72 to 90 to make them German only again after their replacement by ICE-4 sets on services beyond Basel to Zürich/Chur/Interlaken. Set 86 (power cars 401086/586) was seen earlier today with just one pantograph on each power car, the Swiss one having been removed. The "25 Years of ICE to Switzerland" logos on the cab sides hadn't been removed through!


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

Guerbetaler
 

Am 20.08.2020 um 10:03 schrieb Chris Wood via groups.io:
picture which aims to depict the person as such is considered an
infringement of personality rights
This is the important point. Because there is also the right to freely depict public places in Switzerland ("Panoramafreiheit"). This means, taking a photo of a train where you can see people but not necessarily recognizing them, is allowed. But taking a detail photo of a train window with exactly one, clearly recognizable person, is an infringement of personality. Somebody standing in a public place, e.g. a railway platform, seeing me taking photos and not moving back, can't claim an infringement of personality.

It's not always easy to distinguish the two situations. I never had a problem with this in railway stations. But I once had in the street in front of my house. For some reason I wanted to take a photo of the street. I saw a strange chap walking in my direction. I could have well done without that chap in my picture but he didn't seem to bother so I took my photo and stepped toward my house. Suddenly that chap was behind me, shouting I had taken a picture of him and that wasn't allowed and I had to delete the photo. Now I wasn' t in the mood to argue with him, even more as I really didn't like him to be in my picture, so I deleted it and took another photo.

Of course I hadn't deleted all pictures with his image... but I still don't like them. I prefer the ones without him. ;-)

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

Andrew Moglestue
 

When photographing trains, and even more so trams (which is more my main interest in photography) it is virtually impossible not to get people in the picture, and indeed shots with people in them are generally the more interesting ones.

I have had some, but remarkably few, interactions with people who objected.

By far the largest number of run ins I had were not with people who objected to their picture being taken, but by over-zealous security guards.

I was in one country in the east recently and what they really wanted was money. I fortunately had a smaller bank note in my pocket and could buy them off before they forcibly deleted pictures or confiscated the camera.

The steup was that they told me that I needed to get a photo permit from some office that conveniently happened to be closed on that day. When I asked to talk to their superior officer or manager, strangely he could not be found either.

But if i would give them a small amount of money they promised to "protect" me.

The entire conversation and exchange of money took place in full view of a security camera (this was in a station). So I guess they had the power to make evidence disappear and it was wise not to challenge them unnecessarily.

But i don't think anything like that would be the case in Switzerland.


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

George Raymond
 

Reactions to a photographer may depend on the camera. A smart phone is more discrete than a long lens. Of course, many train shots require the latter.

I have had few problems with photography over the years, but I do keep in mind that some people may object.

George


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Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

Chris Wood
 

I too have been politely requested to delete a photograph which accidentally contained the image of a passerby. It wasn't in a rail context, I was taking a typical tourist shot in Luzern. After that I checked up and discovered the following in the Switzerland entry on Wikimedia Commons's guidance on personality rights in photographs:

Taking a picture of a person in a public space: Requires consent (see explanation below)

Publishing pictures of a person in a public space: Requires consent (as per above)

Commercial use of a published picture of a person in a public space: Requires consent (as per above)

Swiss civil law contains a general clause for protection of personality rights, which may be restricted only with the consent of the person affected. This applies to the right to the own image, even if a picture is taken in a public space. In principle, any unauthorized picture which aims to depict the person as such is considered an infringement of personality rights (according to the jurisprudence of the Swiss Federal Court). Therefore, just taking a person's photograph is an offensive act and consent must be obtained from any person recognizably depicted as an individual, unless their appearance is merely accidental and has nothing to do with the purpose of the image. Consent can be given expressly (either written or verbal) or implied through actions. It is generally recognized by case law and legal doctrine that consent is implied for pictures of public figures, at least when performing their public functions or activities (not necessarily also in private situations). Consent is also implied for people consciously and voluntarily exposed to the public in some kind of public event. As an exception, predominant and mostly public interests (e. g. public information, science) will allow an unauthorized picture to be admitted.

The Swiss personality right to privacy does not protect financial interests. Therefore it makes no difference in terms of the right to one's own image if a picture is used commercially or in a non-profitable way.


Re: Spiez-Interlaken

Guerbetaler
 

Am 19.08.2020 um 13:41 schrieb gordonwis via groups.io:
The villages are small (with about 60% pop of 'working age') -
Därligen apparently c430 at last count, Leissigen about 1000 in total
(1/6 the size of Schwarzenburg...)
Along the line La Chaux-de-Fonds - Les Ponts-de-Martel you will find, aapart from the city, two municipalities with 1200 and 1000 inhabitants. They not only have regional trains, there is even a railway line maintained for this. Other examples of the same size will be found.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: RhB 602 and 701

David Prior
 

On 19 Aug 2020, at 16:52, Martin Baumann <martin98baumann@outlook.com> wrote:
.602 is being repaired and is expected to return to service shortly
From the Tägliche Lokdienst, 602 was indeed back out and diagrammed today, 5305 LE to Samedan then joining 603 to work 6174.
605 meanwhile ran LE in the opposite direction as 5336 Samedan-Landquart, due a K4 exam.


Re: Spiez-Interlaken

gordonwis
 

On Wednesday, 19 August 2020, 00:30:29 BST, Guerbetaler <guerbetaler@sunrise.ch> wrote:
However, the region and the canton decided that there will be a bus.
Problem is, should one see that traffic jams really hinder the bus,
returning to rail will be expensive. The platforms will be removed as
works are due for both Lessigen and Därligen.


I take your points but I don't think that really amounts to a compelling argument against the bus option. (And I say this as someone who very certainly prefers trains to buses but I am also a demographer / logistician and can understand the logic of buses in certain situations. and I also realise that regional traffic connects villages to cities...)

In another place I know in Switzerland where bus and train run along the same route you see lots of people using the bus in preference to the train as it stops closer to their residence (and maybe the fare is cheaper).

Of course a proportion of locals are going to argue against such a change, and they will obviously look for reasons to use to back up their claim and traffic jams is an easy one to pick. I can image there might be a traffic jam every so often, but along most of the route the through traffic is on the ausbaustrecke road, presumably not the road the bus would use.

The villages are small (with about 60% pop of 'working age') - Därligen apparently c430 at last count, Leissigen about 1000 in total (1/6 the size of Schwarzenburg...)


RhB 602 and 701

Martin Baumann
 

Information from an RhB employee on the German Drehscheibe forum. 602 is being repaired and is expected to return to service shortly. 701 is being used for parts and will almost certainly not run again


Re: 25 more Vectron for BLS

Martin Baumann
 

91 85 4 475 419-8 CH-BLSC works number 22847


Re: Spiez-Interlaken

Guerbetaler
 

Am 08.08.2020 um 02:02 schrieb gordonwis via groups.io:
Very sad, but - I agree, never seen much traffic happening.
If you want to see traffic, go at commuter's time. In fact there was
quite some local opposition, especially because there are doubts about
the reliability of a bus service due to traffic jams.

b) The three places they 'serve' are small villages.
not too small, but regional traffic doesn't connect the larger cities
with each others. Regional traffic connects the small villages to the
larger cities!

c) Only Leissigen station is next to the village. Faulensee is up the
hill in a field (a quick satellite view will show you how green it is
around Faulensee station) and Därligen is too far to the East of the
village, when the road that a bus can use runs right through the
village from West to East.
Faulensee was only partly served. For Därligen there was a proposition by BLSN to move the plattform to a better place.

However, the region and the canton decided that there will be a bus. Problem is, should one see that traffic jams really hinder the bus, returning to rail will be expensive. The platforms will be removed as works are due for both Lessigen and Därligen.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: Spiez-Interlaken

gordonwis
 

Very sad, but - I agree, never seen much traffic happening.

Therefore I am not surprised at the news, for reasons including:

a) None of them are in the right place for modern tastes (too far to walk, much easier to drive your car or get off the bus at a stop much closer to home.

b) The three places they 'serve' are small villages.

c) Only Leissigen station is next to the village. Faulensee is up the hill in a field (a quick satellite view will show you how green it is around Faulensee station) and Därligen is too far to the East of the village, when the road that a bus can use runs right through the village from West to East.


11173

Martin Baumann
 


11173 has been purchased by the DSF organisation who are based in Koblenz and who already own a large collection of traktors and railcars


Re: Infrastructure Questions

Guerbetaler
 

Am 14.08.2020 um 19:59 schrieb glyn.jones via groups.io:
Are the standard dimensions for infrastructure on the Swiss railway network, or for its constituent operators, published anywhere?
As far as there are standards, yes. You find them in the Federal AB-EBV.
<https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/de/home/rechtliches/rechtsgrundlagen-vorschriften/ab-ebv.html>

I'm referring to things like standard platform heights
Platform height for meter gauge isn't standardized. Standard is set per
network and is P37 for RhB/MGB, P35 for many other railways, P32 for AB,
RBS and some more and P55 for LEB. Standard for standard gauge is P55

P55 means that the platform edge is 55 cm above rail head.

and minimum widths, minimum distances of obstacles from platform edges, minimum dimensions of tunnels,
The width is a function of the passenger flow. Distance of obstacles and tunnel dimensions are a question of the clearance (Lichtraumprofil). Most meter gauge lines go after EBV profile A, but have B wehre standard gauge wagons are transported (Rollschemel, Rollbock)

spacing between tracks etc.
There is a standard for this in AB-EBV

I would like to know for modelling purposes.
You have to know that the standards must be obeyed for new builds. Many existing situations were built after older standards.

Markus, Gürbetal


Infrastructure Questions

glyn.jones
 

A member of the Swiss Railways Society has asked:

Are the standard dimensions for infrastructure on the Swiss railway network,
or for its constituent operators, published anywhere? I'm referring to
things like standard platform heights and minimum widths, minimum distances
of obstacles from platform edges, minimum dimensions of tunnels, spacing
between tracks etc. I would like to know for modelling purposes.

Can anybody help?

Glyn


End of Ee 6/6 II

Martin Baumann
 

It is reported by Bahnforum.ch that the remaining Ee 6/6 II are now permanently out of service. The remaining five locos were all used at Lausanne Triage: 16814 16815 16816 16817 16820
16815 had apparently been out of use for some time.

Their replacements will be Aem 940, in the short term supplemented by Am 843 as deliveries of 940s and training have not been completed


Re: Spiez-Interlaken

Martin Baumann
 

Local services in Switzerland are ordered and subsidised by local authorities and they have chosen the bus option.

When both sets on the locals were loco hauled I often did one to Därligen for the other one back (they crossed at Interlaken West) and I don't recall anyone else ever joining or leaving there.


Re: 25 more Vectron for BLS

Martin Baumann
 

91 85 6 475 418-0 CH-BLSC works number 22844 is in Regensburg for commisioning

861 - 880 of 28784