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Re: Gotthardbahn

Andrew Moglestue
 

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 09:55 PM, Guerbetaler wrote:
However, the two independent bores make it likely that at least one of them
can still be used.
They said something similar about Eurotunnel as well, but all the major incidents that occurred have led to both tunnels closing.

I hope the Gotthard Base Tunnel is more operationally robust in that respect.


Re: Gotthardbahn

davey
 

Many of the crossovers were removed once the GBT was opened. Thus, with the requirement for banking locos, the mountain route would never be able to sustain anything like the same volume of traffic.

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Re: Gotthardbahn

Andrew Moglestue
 

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 09:12 PM, George Raymond wrote:
In case of a major incident (flood, rockslide), how fast will the line be
restored, if at all?
Nobody can predict all future scenarios. But some arguments that strongly speak against this:

Of course my own personal speculation of course. I'm not claiming any greater wisdom here.

1) loss of Gothardbahn would affect Schöllenenbahn and thus Andermatt and other resorts would be cut off or only reachable by a lengthy detour. In contrast to centralized countries such as Britain and France, where the central government can just shrug that off (Canfranc line for example), in Switzerland the cantons have a lot of political leverage and I don't think the cantons concerned would stand for it.

2) the Gotthardbahn is part of the Swiss mythos and national identity and I don't think people would just accept it being closed down.

3) my personal hope is that tourism will also pick up when the pandemic finally allows, and that the present once a day panoramic train, which is really only suitable for people starting from the Ticino end, can be extended into several trains a day, maybe a bit like the Glacier Express. And maybe also an increase in use of historic locomotives and rolling stock. But all this is speculative.


Re: Gotthardbahn

Guerbetaler
 

Am 24.01.2021 um 20:00 schrieb George Raymond:
Will SBB be tempted to reduce it to single track? I hope not! (In a
very different country like the US this can happen quickly.)
This has in fact been discussed but was rejected as too expensive. It would be a possibility to reach EBV3 profile. However, it would also reduce capacity. There is no business case for such a move. If I say business case, I include non-monetary aspects.

In case of a major incident (flood, rockslide), how fast will the
line be restored, if at all?
It will not, except for single level IC trains, that can go over it at any time.

Is the line still considered a viable alternative in case of a major
problem in the base tunnel?
No, because it can't be used by double deck passenger trains and hardly any of the freight trains would fit into the old tunnels (EBV1 profile) AND bring enough motive power for the grades. In case of an event, freight trains are rerouted via Lötschberg. For passengers a combination of trains over the top and buses through the road tunnel might be considered. However, the two independent bores make it likely that at least one of them can still be used.

Since the end of the year access to GBT is possible with EBV3 profile.

Is there a federal law requiring SBB to maintain the line in its
current state?
Not a law. The concession and the "Leistungsvereinbarung" require that the line is kept open, but at reduced costs (as a regional line).

If I recall correctly, the SBB resisted efforts to
make the Gotthard a UNESCO World Heritage Site to retain
flexibility.
That might change in the future.

Markus


Re: Gotthardbahn

Guerbetaler
 

Am 24.01.2021 um 17:03 schrieb csipromo via groups.io:
Are all the SOB services running over the original line or are some
using the base tunnel?
Why should they? They are working on the IR26 / IR46 concecssion and this one is via Göschenen.
I thought that there were GPE services running both north-south and
south-north each day.
There is a South-North service PE 3092 Arth-Goldau ar 12:30

Is the train running to and from Arth-Goldau or is it still running
Flüelen to Lugano with boat transfer to/from Luzern?
Hm, wonder if you believe what I write...

You can check the timetable on www.fahrplanfelder.ch in tables 601 and 631.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: Gotthardbahn

George Raymond
 

The great reduction of traffic on the Gotthard mountain route elicits the following questions:

Will SBB be tempted to reduce it to single track? I hope not! (In a very different country like the US this can happen quickly.)

In case of a major incident (flood, rockslide), how fast will the line be restored, if at all?

Is the line still considered a viable alternative in case of a major problem in the base tunnel?

Is there a federal law requiring SBB to maintain the line in its current state? If I recall correctly, the SBB resisted efforts to make the Gotthard a UNESCO World Heritage Site to retain flexibility.

George


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Re: Gotthardbahn

Andrew Moglestue
 

As far as I know there are no freight sidings being along the old route that are still served, not even sporadically.

One exception is in connection with the construction of the second Gotthard road tunnel, with some of the spoils being moved out by rail and the trans-shipped onto barges in Flüelen to be deposited in various locations in the lake as an anti erosion measure (much of the NEAT material was similarly disposed). But even this seems to be an on-off thing, as some of the spoils are being moved to other locations that are not rail-served.


Re: Gotthardbahn

csipromo
 

I was under the understanding that there were still freights over the old route if those trains included loads that were not authorized for the base tunnel. I don't know if this has changed over the past few years.

Are all the SOB services running over the original line or are some using the base tunnel?
I thought that there were GPE services running both north-south and south-north each day.
Is the train running to and from Arth-Goldau or is it still running Flüelen to Lugano with boat transfer to/from Luzern?

Regards

Mike C


Gotthardbahn

Guerbetaler
 

I got this question in private, but it might be of general interest. And perhaps there are amendments, as I live near the Lötschberg, not the Gotthard...(my last short visit in Göschenen was in July)

Because of that I would like to ask you - are there any regular freights over the old Gotthard route? And also, any loco hauled
services at all?
Rather not. Old Gotthard line has become a regional mountain line. You might find a few local freight trains and there had been a scrap train or something similar that took the old route. But I don't know, if this is still running. It's quiet now in Göschenen.

The only loco hauled, scheduled passenger train is the Gotthard Panorama Express (PE 3093), 1st class only, with supplement, reservation needed, running daily except Monday from 17 April - 24 October, also 24 May (Whitsun Monday), Arth-Goldau dp. 13:30.

Markus


Ce 6/8 iii 14305 tour on 1 May 2021

Gbgen
 


Re: SBB Steuerwagen BDt (EWI, EWII) Question

Martin Baumann
 

Thanks, SBB record keeping is not what it was


Re: Re 4/4 II Passenger in 2021 timetable

Martin Baumann
 

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 02:02 PM, Martin Baumann wrote:


Region Basel
IC 3: 550, 555, 590, 595
S: 17042, 17046, 17313 (Olten)
S: 17065, 17066 (Stein-Säckingen)
S: 17054, 17055, 17057, 17082, 17084, 17086 (Delémont)
550,555,590,595 will not be Re 4/4 II after 28.03
The other trains listed will be loco for the last time on April 2nd. When they resume after Easter they will be 560 units


Re: SBB Steuerwagen BDt (EWI, EWII) Question

Guerbetaler
 

Am 17.01.2021 um 16:11 schrieb Martin Baumann:
When was 92-33 939 withdrawn?
02.03.2006


Re: SBB Steuerwagen BDt (EWI, EWII) Question

Martin Baumann
 

When was 92-33 939 withdrawn? It is not mentioned in the list above. It was still in stock 01.01.2003 but was not 01.01.2009. It is missing from the VRS pdf files.


Re: RhB Ge 6/6 II (701 Class)

Martin Baumann
 

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 05:56 PM, Martin Baumann wrote:


705 was stopped today. 08.01, and will now be used for parts
Correction: 705 has been stored serviceable and may return to service if a shortage of locos develops later in the year


Re: RhB Ge 6/6 II (701 Class)

tudor erich
 

701,705,706 which one next?


Re: New trainsets for the Centovalli railway

Guerbetaler
 

Am 08.01.2021 um 20:05 schrieb Marco van Uden via groups.io:
The "toblerones" are owned by the Italians and it is not yet known if
SSIF will also buy new trainset
SSIF often bought old trainsets from FART and FLP.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: New Bozberg Tunnel

Andrew Moglestue
 

I don't think the objective was ever to shorten the distance, but to make the route usable by freight trains with greater clearances.

As a side effect the old tunnel will serve as a service and emergency access and evacuation tunnel, so increasing safety.


Re: New trainsets for the Centovalli railway

Mick Sasse
 

Thanks, Markus - very helpful (if not what I'd like to have heard....!)

Mick


Re: New trainsets for the Centovalli railway

Marco van Uden
 

Look at the current stock list and you will know...
http://www.railfaneurope.net/list/switzerland/switzerland_fart.html

The "toblerones" are owned by the Italians and it is not yet known if SSIF will also buy new trainset. They are only 14 years old...
Marco

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