Date   

Re: MOB coaces b203-6

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
I have several publications on the MOB but find pictures of these
coaches uncommon. Were they used sparingly in traffic, or even
rarely, by 1992 and 1993? Thank you
on the same occasions as and not seldom together with AB 98 and B 49.

These coaches were built very "econcomically", only carbody was delivered from
SIG, bogies came from withdrawn wooden coaches and probably also other parts.
They did not have a toilet. When I saw them, it was mostly on a siding in
Zweisimmen. 1986/89 at least one of them was on GFM for quite some time.

Markus Giger


MOB coaces b203-6

tudor erich
 

I have several publications on the MOB but find pictures of these
coaches uncommon. Were they used sparingly in traffic, or even
rarely, by 1992 and 1993? Thank you


Re: MOB Panoramic coaches

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
Are the later coaches As118, As 119, Bs226 and Bs 227 identical to
the earlier coaches of thse types? Looking forward to a positive
answer here!
They are not identical:
all four have the new SIG 90 bogies like the Breda coaches
(earlier coaches have SIG Torsionsstab like 201-202 etc.)
226-227 have basically the same carbody as 220-225, but have a different air
condition, visible from air intakes above entrance.
118-119 are different from 110...114. Basically they correspond with the second
class coaches, but have six (larger) windows instead of seven (and five plus
toilet instead of six plus toilet on the other side). They have the same (more
powerful) air condtion as 226-227.

Markus Giger


MOB Panoramic coaches

tudor erich
 

Are the later coaches As118, As 119, Bs226 and Bs 227 identical to
the earlier coaches of thse types? Looking forward to a positive
answer here!


Re: MOB coaches AB98 and B49

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
Betreff: [SwissRail] MOB coaches AB98 and B49
Were these coaches still in use in 1992 and 1993? If so, did they
still have raised lettering, or painted lettering. Thanks
In 1977, B 49, B 50 and AB 98 had the painted "Fl�gelrad" sign.
Thus, the raised lettering must have disappeared in the seventies.
AB 98 had the modern style MOB painted as early as 1980.
I do not know, if B 49 also got the new lettering.
AFAIK regular use of these coaches ended about 1980 but they continued to help
on days with very heavy traffic or special events, like the yearly big national
youth ski camp in Lenk or the 1994 jodeling festival in Lenk.

On 17 July 1993 I found AB 98 at the end of track in Zweisimmen in good shape.

Markus Giger


MOB coaches AB98 and B49

tudor erich
 

Were these coaches still in use in 1992 and 1993? If so, did they
still have raised lettering, or painted lettering. Thanks


Day trips in Switzerland

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Jon Blythe" <jonblythe@netlon.co.uk>
An: "'Giger-Baumann'" <giger.baumann@smile.ch>
Gesendet: Montag, 23. April 2001 09:02
Betreff: RE: SwissRail member
what additional information would you expect on SwissRail?
Info on good railway places to visit - I'm in Switzerland from
26 May to 9 June staing in Spiez, Lugano & Ersfeld and would
like info on suitable day trips
That's jus the last days before timetable change. From Spiez you
*have to* visit the MOB - and why not once have a look at the TPF.
Changing in Motbovon and going through to Pal�zieux or only to
Bulle (where the shops are) or then again just go to Gruy�res (yes!
that's the cheese), a nice old town on a rock, some minutes up
from the railway station. Of course that's something else than a
railway place - but there is enough railway on the way to get there
and back again.

Then you might have a look at the tunnel work places in Frutigen
and Goppenstein (where Ae 8/8 are used for excavation trains).

Have you ever been to M�rren? Nice day trip from Spiez. Or make
a round trip over Wengernalpbahn. It is not sure whether other
mountain railways would work already.

In Interlaken West at the railway station there is a model railway
exhibition with Om/cogwheel, HOe, HO and LGB with a total
length of 430m. Open 1000-1200 and 1330-1800. Entrance
CHF 7.00 (last time I was there). Another interesting model
railway is on the Heimwehfluh, to be reached by cable car from
Interlaken West.

If you still want to see something else than just railways, go to the
Ballenberg "Swiss open-air museum for rural dwelling and live-styles"
(by bus from Brienz).

more suggestions?

Markus Giger


AB Interruption

Markus Giger <giger.baumann@...>
 

Appenzellerbahn will be interrupted May 7th-12th
between Herisua and Urnäsch due to renewal work
in Wilen station. Passengers will be transported
by Bus between Herisau and Urnäsch.
Markus Giger


Re: MOB passenger stock and wagons

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
Can anyone post general arrangement drawings of AB305-8 and B211-15
so I can compare to drawings I already have of earlier stock?
Anyone have drawings of MOB cement and oil wagons?
They are all in the two MOB books I indicated here some messages ago. Finke is
good, but they are better (but in French, of course). Then there was already a
book with many drawings on the 75th anniversary of MOB in 1976. There is also
already a book about BVZ which has many drawings. The BVZ book as well as the
french "Chemins de fer" have some original drawings (from BVZ, MOB, SIG and FFA)
with all measurements of interior arrangement. Drawings of interior arrangement
of Panoramic coaches were in SER. I think most stuff is published. Due to
copyright questions I hesitate to put them all in the files section.

Markus Giger


Re: MOB wagons

Stefan Dringenberg <std@...>
 

tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Anyone have drawings of MOB cement and oil wagons?
As a short remark: Wolfgang Finke, the publisher of the rolling stock
directories "Die Fahrzeuge der Rhaetischen Bahn" and "Die Fahrzeuge
der Furka-Oberalp-Bahn" is working on a book about the MOB. He has
showed my a lot of drawings. They are not perfect, but will give an
impression of the different vehicles. Finke said that the release date will
be at the end of 2001/beginning 2002.

BTW: He also works on a book about the BVZ...

Stefan


MOB wagons

tudor erich
 

Anyone have drawings of MOB cement and oil wagons?
Thank you


MOB passenger stock.

tudor erich
 

Can anyone post general arrangement drawings of AB305-8 and B211-15
so I can compare to drawings I already have of earlier stock?
Many thanks


Re: MOB models

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Giger-Baumann" <giger.baumann@smile.ch>
-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "tudor erich" <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
Can we be clear on this, are Bemo models 201-2, 301-3
and 103-7 correct in all respects, and 207-210 have
wrong bogies and should not have diapragms?
Yes for the time period up to about 1995. [...]
Going through BEMO catalogs I found that coaches and vans of the same series
sometimes are shown with different bogies. To help modellers to decide, whether
the correct bogies are there, I try to give a general rule:
1. all RhB steel coaches after 1955 plus A 1253-1256 but except D 4214-4218 and
all MOB coaches 1960-1974 have SIG "Torsionsstab" bogies
2. all RhB aluminium coaches until 1972 plus B 2233-2234 have SWP 68 bogies
3. RhB coaches after 1974 were delivered with SWP 74 bogies
4. Breda panoramic and all RhB coaches after 1990 came with SIG 90 bogies
5. SBB Br�nig, BVZ and FO coaches 1945-1980 all have SIG Schelling bogies; it
may be that bogies after 1966 have some differences against earlier ones
(perhaps someone knows the deatils?).

This means, that coaches and vans of the same tpye for different companies came
with different bogies:
RhB D 4210-4213 SIG Torsionsstab, FO D 4241-4243 SIG Schelling
MOB B 211-215 SWP 74, FO B 4273-4288 SIG Schelling

Some older coaches were also fitted with these bogie types during the time
periods indicated. These bogies had later been used for new coaches, e.g. most
R+J panoramic coaches got such bogies. On BVZ the coaches for T�sch - Zermatt
got rebuilt older bogies and do not fit in the above list.

If you have specific questions, do not hesitate to ask.
Markus Giger


Re: FO locomotives and Brig flooding September 1993

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "tudor erich" <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
Further research shows that, probably BVZ lok 4 was
used at least. Anyone confirm or refute?
confirm, photos in SER 1-2/1994, dated 23 Oct and 18 Dec 1993

Markus Giger


Re: FO locomotives and Brig flooding September 1993

tudor erich
 

Further research shows that, probably BVZ lok 4 was
used at least. Anyone confirm or refute?
--- tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
I believe the FO had to borrow from the BVZ to provide
traction for <BR>
some workings after the floods at Brig. I believe I
have seen a photo <BR>
of a modern BVZ lok on the Oberalp section. Can anyone
confirm,and <BR>
which loks were involved. Thank you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

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Re: MOB coach types, was: MOB and methods of working

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

The pictures are uploaded. To make it possible to get an impression of the types
existing, I have also uploaded pictures of companies other than MOB. Have a look
at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SwissRail/files/narrow%20gauge%20coach%20types/

First modern type of coaches on MOB was a livery of ten FFA "Einheitswagen"
with
SIG bogies in 1963-64 similar to RhB, but shortened by 1 platform (like FO)
and
without diaphragms:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SwissRail/files/narrow%20gauge%20coach%20types/FFA
%201/

1973 were delivered five coaches of the SIG "Einheitswagen" (with SIG bogies),
similar to Br�nig but shortened by one platform (like FO) and without
diaphragms:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SwissRail/files/narrow%20gauge%20coach%20types/SIG
%201/

Finally in 1979-80 a batch of nine coaches arrived from SIG with SWP bogies.
It
was a completely redesigned "Einheitswagen", also delivered to FO ...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SwissRail/files/narrow%20gauge%20coach%20types/SIG
%202/

Markus Giger


MOB coach types, was: MOB and methods of working

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
Particularly, how do 211-215 304 and 305-8 differ
from 201-2, 207-210, 301-3 and 103-7?
to indicate doors and windows of a car, I use:
T = T�r/entrance door
i = open platform
W = WC/toilet (small white window on one side, small window on the other side)
P = Plattform/platform (small window on both sides)
6' = 6 windows first class (1400 mm wide)
4" = 4 windows second class (1200 mm wide)

First modern type of coaches on MOB was a livery of ten FFA "Einheitswagen" with
SIG bogies in 1963-64 similar to RhB, but shortened by 1 platform (like FO) and
without diaphragms:
A 103-107 = TW6'T (105 fitted with diaphragms about 1994)
B 201-202 = TW8"T
AB 301-303 = TW4"3'T (heavy rebuild 1997-2000)
{all available from BEMO in correct proportions}

In 1968-71 four similar coaches without toilet and open platform arrived:
B 203-206 = i7"i (heavy rebuild 1994-2000)
{do not know a model, but could be built by shortening a B 201-202 and opening
entrance}

1973 were delivered five coaches of the SIG "Einheitswagen" (with SIG bogies),
similar to Br�nig but shortened by one platform (like FO) and without
diaphragms:
B 207-210 = WT8"T
AB 304 = WT4'3"T (nearly identical to BOB AB 211-215 but very different from
Br�nig AB which have WT3'4"TW but with 1200mm windows in first class)
First class of this SIG type on BVZ, BOB and MOB differed from SBB-Br�nig and
compartments are shorter (1917.5mm) than on all other first class coaches (>2m).
{accurate BEMO model for B 207-210, first class of BVZ and BOB BEMO models is
WRONG, dimensions are only true for Br�nig}

Finally in 1979-80 a batch of nine coaches arrived from SIG with SWP bogies. It
was a completely redesigned "Einheitswagen", also delivered to FO (A 4063-4066,
ABt 4155-4159, ABt 4195, B 4273-4288, but all with SIG bogies) and GFM/TPF (Bt
253-256). For the first time all coaches arrived with diaphragms. After this,
SIG quit the field of coach builders, concentrated successfully on bogies and
MOB only purchased Panoramic coaches afterwards.
B 211-215 = TW8"T (carbody identical with FO B 4273-4288, but different bogies)
AB 305-308 = TW3'4"T, fited with push-pull-wiring for 5000 series, 305-306 with
matching paint.
{do not know a model but am interested in the FO version!}

I will post photos in the files section. They will be announced as soon as they
are there.

Markus Giger


Re: MOB and methods of working

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
Freight on the MOB. Can anyone advise if the freight workings at the
Zweisimmen end of the line worked to a regular timetable, or were
they as required?
they are regular, but probably "facultativ" in part. Such trains carry an "F"
after train number. It means, depending on traffic it is decided, whether a
train will run or not. I will try to get additional information on that subject.

The regular freights, which also conveyed a post coach, which ceased
in May 1994. Did these reach/start from Montreux, and did they have a
regular diagram or were they as required?
They carried CargoDomicil (that's LCL) and ran Mo-Fr regularly, but only
Saanen - Zweisimmen

What are the differences, or where can I find drawings, of the
passenger stock. Particularly, how do 211-215 304 and 305-8 differ
from 201-2, 207-210, 301-3 and 103-7?
If you want to know all details of MOB, you should buy the two books
(beginning - 1963 and 1964 - 1994 of BVA about MOB (ISBN 2-88125-008-4 and
009-2, CHF 79.- each, don't know about postage abroad, can be ordered directly
from editor: Editions La Raill�re, 14, ch. Travers-Bancs, CH-1092 Belmont). They
are not cheap and they only have French texts. But they have first class b-w
photographs and an absolutely complete stock survey with drawings of each type!
But you need to understand a few words of French. As to the 201...308 I will
explain in a separate posting. I will put photos of the different types in the
files section.

Are the brs Panoramic coaches 220 and 221 identical to the original
brs 223?
Externally they are identical. Interior of 223 was changed once. There were
diagrams of the interior in a SER, if this is of any importance.

The Leman and Oberland. Did these convey Panoramic stock? 1st and
second or one or other?
just ordinary named fast trains.

How common was it that additional stock or even special trains were
provided for parties? Once a week, twice a day?
Additional stock in the form of Ar 101 and As 102 (the old CIWL-type pullmans)
could be seen quite often. May be on four subsequent days but then not for two
weeks. Special trains starting in Montreux would mainly be Superpanoramic or,
later, Crystal Panoramic, running on weekdays for groups. Other special things
are steam trains between Montbovon and Gstaad, freight trains from Montbovon in
the Gstaad direction and specials from GFM going to Ch�teau-d'Oex or Gstaad.
There were special events with daily special trains but months without anything.
Depends, what was going on in the region...

How long would it take to provide a heavy overhaul on a motive power
item? A month, a week or what.
what is "heavy overhaul"?
normal cycle in Switzerland is something like R1 - R2 - R1 - R3 - R1 - R2 etc.
R1 is quite frequent and should not be more than two weeks
R2 takes a bit longer but AFAIK not more than a month
R3 can differ very much: if no important changes are made, about two months;
otherwise it can happen you do not see a vehicle for more than half a year.
Depending on other tasks in a shop of a smaller company, an overhaul can take
longer.

Markus Giger


MOB and methods of working

tudor erich
 

I think I`m beginning to get this clear in my mind now.
I`m specialising on considering peak period here, say July, August
September.
Freight on the MOB. Can anyone advise if the freight workings at the
Zweisimmen end of the line worked to a regular timetable, or were
they as required?
The regular freights, which also conveyed a post coach, which ceased
in May 1994. Did these reach/start from Montreux, and did they have a
regular diagram or were they as required?
What are the differences, or where can I find drawings, of the
passenger stock. Particularly, how do 211-215 304 and 305-8 differ
from 201-2, 207-210, 301-3 and 103-7?
Are the brs Panoramic coaches 220 and 221 identical to the original
brs 223?
The Leman and Oberland.Did these convey Panoramic stock? 1st and
second or one or other?
How common was it that additional stock or even special trains were
provided for parties? Once a week, twice a day?
How long would it take to provide a heavy overhaul on a motive power
item? A month, a week or what.
Many thanks.


Re: MOB and service provision.

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

At least 2002 was in use in 1993/94. Do not know about 2001.

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "tudor erich" <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>

Thank you for the reply. But were they in use in 1992
and 1993, or was it before this they were out of
service?