Date   

Re: New Station for Zurich

Max Wyss
 

One can consider this new project a much more improved version of the previous one, as it gives more potential for diameter lines for the S-Bahn, but they also plan to run long-distance trains through this station.

I may report more as soon as I get the referendum material.

Max Wyss.

_____________________

On Page 53 of the August 2001 Issue of Today's Railways there is an
article "New Station for Zurich" about a second underground station at
Zurich HB with a 4.5 km. tunnel to Zurich Oerlikon. There will be a
Referendum on this on September 23.

I believe there was a previous project to double the line to Zurich
Oerlikon via Zurich Wipkingen with a new tunnel just between Wipkingen
and Oerlikon and that it met some opposition.

Is the new project a replacement of the previous one?


Re: New Station for Zurich

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "John Fleck" <johntgv@home.com>
Is the new project a replacement of the previous one?
Yes

The project of a third and fourth track Z�rich HB - Wipkingen - �rlikon would
have meant an additional bridge with additional traffic (additional noise) in
the city. There was a strong opposition against this.

Third and fourth track would not have solved the lack of plattforms in Z�rich
HB. Thus it was planned to maintain for a long time the four tracks behind
Sihlpost now under construction as a transitory solution. This would have
meant long ways to reach certain S-Bahn trains over decades. There was a
strong opposition against this.

The now adopted project of an additional four-track underground station gives
a satisfactory solution for additional plattform capactity and makes
through-running possible for all S-Bahn trains now changing direction in
Z�rich HB. Additional capacity Z�rich - �rlikon is gotten from the direct
tunnel HB - �rlikon.

Markus Giger


Re: Terminology

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Eljas P�lh�" <poelhoe@telia.com>
B4. GB-(date accepted), FI-vastaanotto/takuup�iv�, DE-abnahme/endabnahme,
FR-r�ceptionn�
Is this the date, where railway company accepts vehicle from builder or is
it the date, vehicle is officially approved to be o.k.?
In Finnish terminology it is the date from which the guarantee/garantie is
counted. Is that same as Endabnahme?
Should be that, yes. But this date is not published in Switzerland. Usually it
should be the same as "Inbetriebsetzung"

In general: would you prefere the substantive or the verb? Remind that all
German substantives have a capital! Kassierung, but: kassiert (verb)
I must check which is/are used in lists/rosters. Use may vary between
languages.
SBB list has titles like "Ausrangierungen", but in a vehicle history
it is usually "ausrangiert 5.96"

Markus Giger


New Station for Zurich

John Fleck <johntgv@...>
 

On Page 53 of the August 2001 Issue of Today's Railways there is an
article "New Station for Zurich" about a second underground station at
Zurich HB with a 4.5 km. tunnel to Zurich Oerlikon. There will be a
Referendum on this on September 23.

I believe there was a previous project to double the line to Zurich
Oerlikon via Zurich Wipkingen with a new tunnel just between Wipkingen
and Oerlikon and that it met some opposition.

Is the new project a replacement of the previous one?

Many thanks!

John Fleck

Eljas P�lh� wrote:


Thanks to all responses on and off board,

Generally speaking, I think it would be most useful to use the
terminology
that is used in locomotive lists (rosters) in books, to see how they
compare
to each other, and they also need less knowledge of any language to be
understandable.

I know some terms in Polish, Italian, Spanish, Hungarian, Portuguese,
Danish, Norwegian, Estonian and Czech, but not their relative position
compared to terms used in other countries (so far).

Some details below:


B4. GB-(date accepted), FI-vastaanotto/takuup�iv�,
DE-abnahme/endabnahme,
FR-r�ceptionn�
Is this the date, where railway company accepts vehicle from builder
or is it
the date, vehicle is officially approved to be o.k.?
In Finnish terminology it is the date from which the
guarantee/garantie is
counted. Is that same as Endabnahme?


E4. GB-withdrawn, US-retired, FI-hylk�ys/hyl�tty, SE-slopning,
AT-kassierung, CH-ausrangierung, DE-ausmusterung,
FR-radi�/r�form�e/radiation
radie�/radiation is the same (verb/substantive).
In general: would you prefere the substantive or the verb? Remind
that all
German substantives have a capital! Kassierung, but: kassiert (verb)
I must check which is/are used in lists/rosters. Use may vary between
languages.


E5. GB-(removed from books), FI-kirjoistapoisto, SE-avskrivning,
FR-radi� de
l�inventaire, ZI-scrapped (beware!)
only if the books are not up to date: CH-buchm�ssige Ausrangierung

what is "ZI" ??
It is misprint for ZW (Zimbabwe). Full details of terminology there is
found
in the very complete "Locomotives of Zimbabwe and Botswana" by Ted
Hamer, to
be published in September.

Eljas P�lh�

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Re: Terminology

Eljas Pölhö <poelhoe@...>
 

Thanks to all responses on and off board,

Generally speaking, I think it would be most useful to use the terminology
that is used in locomotive lists (rosters) in books, to see how they compare
to each other, and they also need less knowledge of any language to be
understandable.

I know some terms in Polish, Italian, Spanish, Hungarian, Portuguese,
Danish, Norwegian, Estonian and Czech, but not their relative position
compared to terms used in other countries (so far).

Some details below:



B4. GB-(date accepted), FI-vastaanotto/takuupäivä, DE-abnahme/endabnahme,
FR-réceptionné
Is this the date, where railway company accepts vehicle from builder or is it
the date, vehicle is officially approved to be o.k.?
In Finnish terminology it is the date from which the guarantee/garantie is
counted. Is that same as Endabnahme?



E4. GB-withdrawn, US-retired, FI-hylkäys/hylätty, SE-slopning,
AT-kassierung, CH-ausrangierung, DE-ausmusterung,
FR-radié/réformée/radiation
radieé/radiation is the same (verb/substantive).
In general: would you prefere the substantive or the verb? Remind that all
German substantives have a capital! Kassierung, but: kassiert (verb)

I must check which is/are used in lists/rosters. Use may vary between
languages.



E5. GB-(removed from books), FI-kirjoistapoisto, SE-avskrivning, FR-radié de
l¹inventaire, ZI-scrapped (beware!)
only if the books are not up to date: CH-buchmässige Ausrangierung

what is "ZI" ??

It is misprint for ZW (Zimbabwe). Full details of terminology there is found
in the very complete "Locomotives of Zimbabwe and Botswana" by Ted Hamer, to
be published in September.

Eljas Pölhö


Re: SZB Be 4/4 # 61

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Eljas P�lh�" <poelhoe@telia.com>
Solothurn�Zollikofen�Bern-Bahn Be 4/4 # 28 was renumbered to 61 in
1974. I see no obvious reason for that. They hardly renumbered it to
confuse rail enthusiasts, but the real real reason has escaped my
notice. Any ideas?
It was when SZB and VBW introduced a common numbering-system. SZB numbered
their motor coaches as follows:
1.. = ABDe for Bern - Solothurn
11.. = BDe for Bern - Solothurn
21.. = BDe/Be for Bern - Zollikofen (suburban traffic)
31.. = De (freight)

The then new Be 4/8 48-52 were to take over suburban traffic and thus the BDe
21-23 were rebuilt for use to Solothurn and 22 renumbered 12. Before more
renumberings took place, the common numbering system was fixed:
1.. = ABDe Bern - Solothurn
11.. = for future use
21.. = BDe Bern - Solothurn
31.. = BDe Bern - Worb (800 V=)
41.. = Be 4/8 suburban
61.. = Be 4/4 1200 V= suburban
71.. = Be 4/4 Bern - Worb
101.. = De, Ge, Xe, Tm etc.

Later all ABDe became BDe, BDre, Be and Bre but kept their numbers, as well as
21-23. Last Be 4/8 of third series became number 61. This delivery allowed the
sale of Be 4/4 61 to BTI. The new two-car (nowadays three-car) train sets got
numbers 62-72, the Bern - Worb tram cars (now 600 V=) Be 4/8 81-89. And old
BDe 4/4 24 became number 11 again. It seems that the system was outdated
almost before started...

ASm merger was in 1999

Markus Giger


Re: Terminology, was Hagen DE

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

some remarks below - interesting topic!
Markus Giger

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Eljas P�lh�" <poelhoe@telia.com>
B. DELIVERY
B1. GB-(delivery) ex-works, FI-toimitus/l�hetys, SE-leverans, BE-livraison,
DE-ablieferung/auslieferung, FR-quitt� l�usine/exp�di�e/achev�e
B2. GB-(delivery, arrival), FI-toimitus/vastaanotto, SE-leverans/mottagning,
DE-anlieferung
CH-Ablieferung is rather arrival than ex-works. If I say, something is
"abgeliefert" (may be a letter or a parcel), I mean that it has arrived at
it's destination. Auslieferung/Anlieferung is rather DE.

B3. GB-acceptance trial, FI-vastaanottokoeajo, SE-mottagnings provk�rning,
FR-essay�e
CH-Abnahmeprobefahrt

B4. GB-(date accepted), FI-vastaanotto/takuup�iv�, DE-abnahme/endabnahme,
FR-r�ceptionn�
Is this the date, where railway company accepts vehicle from builder or is it
the date, vehicle is officially approved to be o.k.?

C2 (number of items varies). GB-allocation, FI-sijoittelu, SE-placering,
DE-behaimatung, FR-affectation
CH-Depotzuteilung (does no longer exist)

C4 (if applicable). GB-renumbered, FI-uudelleen numerointi, SE-omnumrering,
CH-umnumerierung, DE-Umzeichnung
is now: Umnummerierung (two m), but SBB also uses Umzeichnung

D. PRESERVATION
D1. GB-preserved, FI-museoitu, SE-bevarat/museilok, DE-erhalten,
FR-pr�serv�e
CH-Historische Fahrzeuge

E2 (if applicable). GB-stored, FI-varastoitu, SE-konserverat, FR-gar� bon
�tat
CH-remisiert

E4. GB-withdrawn, US-retired, FI-hylk�ys/hyl�tty, SE-slopning,
AT-kassierung, CH-ausrangierung, DE-ausmusterung,
FR-radi�/r�form�e/radiation
radie�/radiation is the same (verb/substantive).
In general: would you prefere the substantive or the verb? Remind that all
German substantives have a capital! Kassierung, but: kassiert (verb)

E5. GB-(removed from books), FI-kirjoistapoisto, SE-avskrivning, FR-radi� de
l�inventaire, ZI-scrapped (beware!)
only if the books are not up to date: CH-buchm�ssige Ausrangierung

what is "ZI" ??

E8 (if applicable). GB-cannibalised/source for spares, FI-varaosal�hde,
SE-reservdelsf�rr�d
CH-Ersatzteilspender

E9. GB-sold for scrap, FI-myyty romuksi, SE-s�lt f�r skrot
CH-Verkauf auf Abbruch (or verb: verkauft auf Abbruch)

E10. GB-scrapped/cut up, FI-romutettu, SE-skrotning, BE-d�molition,
DE-verschrottung
CH-Abbruch (verb: abgebrochen)


SZB Be 4/4 # 61

Eljas Pölhö <poelhoe@...>
 

Solothurn­Zollikofen­Bern-Bahn Be 4/4 # 28 was renumbered to 61 in 1974. I
see no obvious reason for that. They hardly renumbered it to confuse rail
enthusiasts, but the real real reason has escaped my notice. Any ideas?

Be 4/4 Bo-Bo SWS MFO 1970
1970 Solothurn­Zollikofen­Bern-Bahn Be 4/4 # 28
1974 Solothurn­Zollikofen­Bern-Bahn Be 4/4 # 61
1978 Biel­Täuffelen­Ins-Bahn Be 4/4 # 5
1985 Biel­Täuffelen­Ins-Bahn Be 4/4 # 505
1997 Biel­Täuffelen­Ins-Bahn Be 4/4 # 525
Aare Seeland Mobil Be 4/4 # 525

Eljas Pölhö
Helsinki, Finland/Malmö, Sweden


Re: Terminology, was Hagen DE

Eljas Pölhö <poelhoe@...>
 

Thanks Max and Markus for clarifications.

Actually the different terminology should be good news to me, I has to
follow railway news in two more languages than before. My editor-in-chief
should give me a rise for a more difficult job! (he he)

Below is an extract of my vocabulary for locomotive lists for certain
languages. It is not complete and I do not claim it to be correct, except
for the Finnish words (but they may appear differently in printed text due
to inflexion at the end of words). The terminology is in approximate
chronological order.

Comments, corrections and additions are welcome to my email (including all
languages not mentioned in this list). When better checked I can mail it to
anybody interested in it.

Eljas Pölhö
Helsinki, Finland/Malmö, Sweden
poelhoe@telia.com

Terminology from order to scrapping:

A. BUILDER
A1. GB-date of order, FI-tilaus, SE-beställning, DE-bestellt, FR-commandé
A2 (steam only). GB-boiler test, FI-koeponnistus, SE-ångtest, DE-, FR-essais
en feu
A3. GB-builder¹s plate, FI-valmistuskilpi, SE-tillverkarskylt,
DE-fabrikschild
A4. GB-(1st) trial, FI-(tehdas-)koeajo, SE-provkörning, DE-probefahrt,
FR-essais de route

B. DELIVERY
B1. GB-(delivery) ex-works, FI-toimitus/lähetys, SE-leverans, BE-livraison,
DE-ablieferung/auslieferung, FR-quitté l¹usine/expédiée/achevée
B2. GB-(delivery, arrival), FI-toimitus/vastaanotto, SE-leverans/mottagning,
DE-anlieferung
B3. GB-acceptance trial, FI-vastaanottokoeajo, SE-mottagnings provkörning,
FR-essayée
B4. GB-(date accepted), FI-vastaanotto/takuupäivä, DE-abnahme/endabnahme,
FR-réceptionné

C. LIFE
C1 GB-put into use, FI-käyttöönotto, CH-inbetriebsetzung,
DE-indienst-stellung, FR-mise en service
C2 (number of items varies). GB-allocation, FI-sijoittelu, SE-placering,
DE-behaimatung, FR-affectation
C3 (if applicable). GB-rebuilt, FI-rakennemuutos, SE-ombyggnad, DE-umbau,
FR-transformation
C4 (if applicable). GB-renumbered, FI-uudelleen numerointi, SE-omnumrering,
CH-umnumerierung, DE-Umzeichnung
C5 (if applicable). GB-(no more repairs allowed), FI-korjauskielto,
FR-réparation differée
C6. GB-(last day in use), FI-viimeinen käyttöpäivä, DE-letzte fahrt
C7. (steam only). GB-last day in steam, FI-viimeinen höyrypäivä

D. PRESERVATION
D1. GB-preserved, FI-museoitu, SE-bevarat/museilok, DE-erhalten,
FR-préservée
D2. GB-plinthed, FI-muistomerkki, SE-uppställt/minnesmärke, DE-denkmal,
FR-en monument
DCx. (life may continue like in C)

E. SCRAPPING
E1. GB-out of use (from...)/condemned, FI-poistettu käytöstä,
SE-avställning/avställt, BE-mise hors service, DE-abgestellt
E2 (if applicable). GB-stored, FI-varastoitu, SE-konserverat, FR-garé bon
état
E3. GB-(proposal for withdrawal/condemned), FI-hylkäysehdotus,
CH-remisierung, DE-z-stellung, FR-en atteinte d'amortissement
E4. GB-withdrawn, US-retired, FI-hylkäys/hylätty, SE-slopning,
AT-kassierung, CH-ausrangierung, DE-ausmusterung,
FR-radié/réformée/radiation
E5. GB-(removed from books), FI-kirjoistapoisto, SE-avskrivning, FR-radié de
l¹inventaire, ZI-scrapped (beware!)
E6. GB-dumped, FI-(käyttämätön), SE-(avställt), DE-(nicht betriebsfähig)
E7. GB-derelict, FI-romu, SE-(skrotlok)
E8 (if applicable). GB-cannibalised/source for spares, FI-varaosalähde,
SE-reservdelsförråd
E9. GB-sold for scrap, FI-myyty romuksi, SE-sålt för skrot
E10. GB-scrapped/cut up, FI-romutettu, SE-skrotning, BE-démolition,
DE-verschrottung


Re: Terminology, was Hagen DE

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Dear Eljas,
you are now touching a very sensitive area of language: different words for
the same thing in Austria, Germany and Switzerland. I think I can help you in
comparison beween the different "Germans" but must leave part of the
comparison between Swiss, French and Belgian meanings of french words to
others.

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Eljas P�lh�" <poelhoe@telia.com>
An: <SwissRail@yahoogroups.com>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. August 2001 15:21
Betreff: [SwissRail] Terminology, was Hagen DE

Is "Inbetriebsetzung" comparable to "(Neu)Abnahme" in German
press? Other approx. similar expressions are at least Endabnahme
and Indienst-Stellung.
All 4 words should more or less have the same meaning, but "Endabnahme"
implicates a process that has finally come to an end. It might rather be used
for prototypes or first vehicle of a series.

Is Swiss withdrawal (Ausrangierung?) comparable to "Ausmusterung"
or "Z-Stellung" in German press?
withdrawal is CH-Ausrangierung, DE-Ausmusterung, AT-Kassierung
DE-Z-Stellung might be the same as CH-Remisierung (out of service but stored
for possible reuse). BLS Ae 8/8 were "remisiert", not "ausrangiert"

or to French terms
HS/hors service or Arr�t d�finitif or AA/Amortissement... or Radiation
(d�finitive)?
From SNCF use I found:
ES = En Service (in commercial use)
EL = En Location (leased)
GB = Gar� Bon �tat, must be the same as "Remisierung", in Swiss french
"remis�"
US = Utilisation Sp�ciale *)
AA = Attente d'Amortisation *)
RD = R�paration Diff�r�e *)
*) status not known in Switzerland

All these categories count as "� l'effectif".
When this ends, it is called "radiation" or "radi� de l'inventaire".

hors service is "ausrangiert" in Switzerland, I do not know about French use.

The exact meaning of the expressions/terminology of course varies between
different countries and straight comparisons are not always possible.
That's it

Markus Giger


Re: Terminology, was Hagen DE

Max Wyss
 

Inbetriebsetzung is kind of the date when the vehicle actually got in
service. Abnahme usually means getting the approval by either the
authorities, or by the operator; particularly Endabnahme is usually
between the operator and the manufacturer.

Ausrangierung is comparable to Ausmusterung.

Hope, this can help.

Max Wyss.

______________________

Is "Inbetriebsetzung" comparable to "(Neu)Abnahme" in German press?
Other approx. similar expressions are at least Endabnahme and
Indienst-Stellung.

Is Swiss withdrawal (Ausrangierung?) comparable to "Ausmusterung" or
"Z-Stellung" in German press?

or to French terms
HS/hors service or Arrêt définitif or AA/Amortissement... or Radiation
(définitive)?

The exact meaning of the expressions/terminology of course varies between
different countries and straight comparisons are not always possible.


Terminology, was Hagen DE

Eljas Pölhö <poelhoe@...>
 

Is "Inbetriebsetzung" comparable to "(Neu)Abnahme" in German press?
Other approx. similar expressions are at least Endabnahme and
Indienst-Stellung.

Is Swiss withdrawal (Ausrangierung?) comparable to "Ausmusterung" or
"Z-Stellung" in German press?

or to French terms
HS/hors service or Arrêt définitif or AA/Amortissement... or Radiation
(définitive)?

The exact meaning of the expressions/terminology of course varies between
different countries and straight comparisons are not always possible.

Eljas Pölhö


VRS strictly takes the date when a vehicle was ready for commercial use
"Inbetriebsetzung" (not even delivery). This is correlated with the date
withdrawn, which is the date, when commercial use ends. The dates "built" and
"scrapped" are interesting but far less reliable to get than the first two.
This is why I use the first two, but record the other two if available.


Re: Hagen DE, was: VBW/RBS

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

perhaps a little bit off-topic, but still related to the RBS steeple cabs:

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Eljas P�lh�" <poelhoe@telia.com>
[...]. But this is a matter of opinion only and I am not trying to create a
never-ending discussion on this matter (though I must admit that I am very
interested in others opinions on this and how to create
reliable/readable/functionally databases).
VRS strictly takes the date when a vehicle was ready for commercial use
"Inbetriebsetzung" (not even delivery). This is correlated with the date
withdrawn, which is the date, when commercial use ends. The dates "built" and
"scrapped" are interesting but far less reliable to get than the first two.
This is why I use the first two, but record the other two if available.

My source says that Hagener Strassenbahn took over from 1 Nov 1926
(freight already from 5 Oct 1926), that is "Betriebsf�hrung".
That is management. Does not say anything about ownership. BLS had, before
merger, "Betriebsf�hrung" of BN, GBS and SEZ, but did not own them.

I guess that Hagener Vorortbahn GmbH was
fully owned by the tramway company.
No, not yet; Voerde and Breckerfeld still owned a part.

The E-locos were lettered to "Hagener Strassenbahn AG"
from the start and that makes me think
that they were owned by the Tramway company.
You are right. Now I found this information in the text.

[...] und ein letzter Vorschlag vom Oktober 1954, wenigstens bis ins
Hasperbachtal den G�terverkehr beizubehalten, war zum Zeitpunkt seiner
Bekanntgabe durch die zum 1. Juli erfolgte Einstellung bereits wieder
�berholt.
says:

... and a final proposition from October 1954, to maintain freight traffic
at least into Hasperbachtal, was already outdated when published,
because of suspension of traffic on 1 July.

or short and chronological:
1 July 1954 = suspension of freight traffic
Oct 1954 = proposal to maintain freight traffic partly, but was too late

Markus Giger


Re: VBW/RBS

Eljas Pölhö <poelhoe@...>
 

Thanks again Markus,

Deutsche Klein- und Privatbahnen is certainly a reliable source that I
should get, I believe it is worth its price (DEM 78 per volume), but there
are so many parts in it....

But as it seems to have some conflicting information to my previous notes, I
had to check my source for Hagen again (Rund um Hagen by Löttgers/Reimann,
1989). Otherwise good, but you have to gather the dates from the text and
thus open for translating errors.

some comments below



There is no reason to doubt that Gerd Wolff/Lothar Riedel in Deutsche Klein-
und Privatbahnen have the correct data for the Hagen locomotives. As there is
also no doubt, that in 1966 nr. 3 came to VBW, 62/112 must be AEG 4053 of
1928. As to the builder's plates it is to note that they do not always give
the date of delivery.
I agree that builder's plates are not reliable for delivery dates, but they
are a kind of "identity cards" for locomotives, and in my opinion they
should be regarded as the identity and the dates for delivery etc. given
separately, as in case of extended trials or other reasons there may be
quite substantial differences. Of course plates are often changed between
locomotives, in case of steam locomotives quiet often and regularly if they
were fastened to boilers, but reality is always much more difficult than
theory. But this is a matter of opinion only and I am not trying to create a
never-ending discussion on this matter (though I must admit that I am very
interested in others opinions on this and how to create
reliable/readable/functionally databases).


The locomotives were delivered to the then legaly independent HVB Hagener
Vorortbahn. Only in 1931 Hagener Strassenbahn took over this company and on 01
Jan 1933 full integration was complete.
My source says that Hagener Strassenbahn took over from 1 Nov 1926 (freight
already from 5 Oct 1926), that is "Betriebsführung". I guess that Hagener
Vorortbahn GmbH was fully owned by the tramway company. The E-locos were
lettered to "Hagener Strassenbahn AG" from the start and that makes me think
that they were owned by the Tramway company.


Electric traction on the line Haspe - Breckerfeld started on 10 Dec 1927.
Freight traffic on that line ceased on 01 July 1954, passenger traffic on 02
Nov 1963.
Yes, you are right for the latter date, I have made a translating error for
a text referring to trials of new trams. I had never discovered that until
now. I am not sure of the year when the freight traffic ceased and have
tolked the following meaning 1955, but is that also a translating error?:
... Die dabei angesprochene Strassenbahngesellschaft Ennepe zeigte sich
jedoch wenig geneigt, statt der Hagener Strassenbahn den defizitären Betrieb
fortzusetzen, und ein letzter Vorsclag vom Oktober 1954, wenigstens bis ins
Hasperbachtal den Güterverkehr beizubehalten, war zum Zeitpunkt seiner
Bekanntgabe durch die zum 1. Juli erfolgte Einstellung bereits wieder
überholt. Die Güterverkehrsanlagen blieben noch über ei Jahr liegen, wurden
dann aber 1956 abgebaut.

Five "Rollwagen" came to VBW between 20 Nov 1954 and 22 Nov 1957
(verkauft/sale dates).

Locomotive 2 (AEG 3528/1927) was scrapped after 1954.
Actually No 2 was scrapped in May 1963 at Voerlde Klbf.


Eljas Pölhö
Helsinki, Finland/Malmö, Sweden


Re: VBW/RBS

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

There is no reason to doubt that Gerd Wolff/Lothar Riedel in Deutsche Klein-
und Privatbahnen have the correct data for the Hagen locomotives. As there is
also no doubt, that in 1966 nr. 3 came to VBW, 62/112 must be AEG 4053 of
1928. As to the builder's plates it is to note that they do not always give
the date of delivery.

The locomotives were delivered to the then legaly independent HVB Hagener
Vorortbahn. Only in 1931 Hagener Strassenbahn took over this company and on 01
Jan 1933 full integration was complete.

Electric traction on the line Haspe - Breckerfeld started on 10 Dec 1927.
Freight traffic on that line ceased on 01 July 1954, passenger traffic on 02
Nov 1963. Locomotive 2 (AEG 3528/1927) was scrapped after 1954.

Markus Giger


VBW/RBS

Eljas Pölhö <poelhoe@...>
 

Does anybody have plate readings from VBW/RBS Ge4/4 # 62/112?
From photos it looks like it has lost its builders plates during the
rebuilding in 1967, but not sure if I have seen both sides of it (in
photos, never seen it in reality).

All Swiss sources I have give it as AEG 1927, but I think it should be AEG
4053 of 1928.

Now I have the two locos in this class (61/111-62/112) as:

AEG 3527 of 1927
1926.10 ordered by Hagener Strassenbahn for line Voerde­Breckerfeld,
1200V
1927 autumn Hagener Strassenbahn # 1
1955.04.01, sent to Vereinigte Bern­Worb-Bahnen and re # Ge 4/4 # 61
1957 reb. VBW/MFO
1975 Vereinigte Bern­Worb-Bahnen Ge 4/4 # 111
1985 Regionalverkehr Bern­Solothurn Ge 4/4 # 111

AEG 4053 of 1928
1927.08.08 ordered by Hagener Strassenbahn for line Voerde­Breckerfeld,
1200V
1928.04.04 Hagener Srassenbahn # 3, abg. 1963.05.12 (line closed)*
1965.11 sold to Vereinigte Bern­Worb-Bahnen, sent there 1966.04 (?)
1966.04 ? (arr.) Vereinigte Bern­Worb-Bahnen (rebuilt 1966­67 before put
into use)
1966-1967 reb. VBW/MFO
1967 Vereinigte Bern­Worb-Bahnen Ge 4/4 # 62
1975 Vereinigte Bern­Worb-Bahnen Ge 4/4 # 112
1985 Regionalverkehr Bern­Solothurn Ge 4/4 # 112

*freight traffic ceased in 1955, but # 3 was used at least in winter
snowplough service until closure.

Eljas Pölhö
Helsinki, Finland/Malmö, Sweden


Re: Bannwart

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Eljas P�lh�" <poelhoe@telia.com>
Die �berlandbahnen von Bern nach Worb by Jeanmaire/Stamm has
photo # 173 depicting a 1:9 scale model railway owned by Herrn Bannwart.
I am not sure of the translation, but guess that after his death the line
moved
to Courrendlin (off Delemont ?).
right

That must be in the 1960s).
because the book appeared in 1971

I do not have any other references to either of the locations (the first
one is not named but obviously between Bern and Worb).
It is Worb (compare with photo #179) but obviousely it was only temporary
track. I remind that type of railway in the sixties/seventies on special
events in eastern Switzerland. And for some time such a train made it's rounds
in the Swiss Transportation Museum (Verkehrshaus) Luzern.

The wheels of the loco are in a shadow, but it looks like a 2C1.
It has some aspects in common with a German S 3/6 but the cab has a very Swiss
appearance. In any case, apart from tank engines, no 2'C1' or 1'C1' ever
existed in Switzerland.

Is there any further info to either location? They may have been
private hobby lines with only temporary servic to the public at
temporary locations.
Markus Giger


Bannwart

Eljas Pölhö <poelhoe@...>
 

Thanks for the help with OJB/RVO. It is quite fascinating to try to list all
changes of ownership, classification and numbering on less often reported
railways.

My next project is RBS and its predecessors. The first problem that is too
much for my sources does not actually have anything to do with RBS/VBW,
except its one time location:

Die Überlandbahnen von Bern nach Worb by Jeanmaire/Stamm has photo # 173
depicting a 1:9 scale model railway owned by Herrn Bannwart. I am not sure
of the translation, but guess that after his death the line moved to
Courrendlin (off Delemont ?). ("... Modellbahn des Herrn Bannwart, im
Masstab 1:9. Nach dem Tode des einstigen Besitzers wurde das Züglein vor
einigen Jahren nach Courrendlin verkauft." That must be in the 1960s).

I do not have any other references to either of the locations (the first one
is not named but obviously between Bern and Worb). The wheels of the loco
are in a shadow, but it looks like a 2C1. Is there any further info to
either location? They may have been private hobby lines with only temporary
servic to the public at temporary locations.

Eljas Pölhö
Helsinki, Finland/Malmö, Sweden


Re: MOB coaches AB98 and B49

jeanphilippe.noiville@...
 

--- In SwissRail@y..., "Giger-Baumann" <giger.baumann@s...> wrote:
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <tudoryork@y...>
Betreff: [SwissRail] MOB coaches AB98 and B49
Were these coaches still in use in 1992 and 1993? If so, did they
still have raised lettering, or painted lettering. Thanks
In 1977, B 49, B 50 and AB 98 had the painted "Flügelrad" sign.
Thus, the raised lettering must have disappeared in the seventies.
AB 98 had the modern style MOB painted as early as 1980.
I do not know, if B 49 also got the new lettering.
AFAIK regular use of these coaches ended about 1980 but they
continued to help
on days with very heavy traffic or special events, like the yearly
big national
youth ski camp in Lenk or the 1994 jodeling festival in Lenk.

On 17 July 1993 I found AB 98 at the end of track in Zweisimmen in
good shape.
Markus Giger
I was lucky enough to see and film B49 on 14 March 1996.It was
incorporated in a (very) secondary train, from Zweisimmen to Château-
d'Oex and back as trains 218 and 121. This train was hauled by Abt
3301/Bde 4/4 3001, it included B49 and B210, the only post-World War
II element in the train! Author Jean-Louis Rochaix states that both
AB98 and B49 were sold in 1998 to the Chemin de fer de La Mure near
Grenoble, France. Considering that railway's shabby maintenance
record, you can fear the worst for these MOB cars.


Re: MOB coaces b203-6

jeanphilippe.noiville@...
 

--- In SwissRail@y..., tudoryork@y... wrote:
I have several publications on the MOB but find pictures of these
coaches uncommon. Were they used sparingly in traffic, or even
rarely, by 1992 and 1993? Thank you

As you may know, the B203-6 series was completely rebuilt in 1995-7.
204, 205,206 are now BDs (2nd class + a large luggage storage space
with sliding door). They run regularly in trains pulled by 8000s
loks. However, they've lost their open platforms, which might
explain why you don't spot them on recent pictures. I personally saw
one of them in the original stand in 1992 on a local train in
Montreux, and I have a short video showing passengers getting in.