Date   

Re: MOB and service provision.

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
Re DZe 2001 and 2002. Are these units used in regular service?
No longer. AFAIK regular use ended with delivery of GDe 4/4 6001-6004 in 1983.
2002 was, after 1979, occupied with freight work on the Zweisimmen side but
would also pull Panoramic Express to Lenk, if necessary. This unit got a
compressed air brake for transporter trucks. The two DZe 6/6 were kept as
possible replacement for GDe 4/4, being the only two series of MOB motive power
able to pull 5 panoramic coaches. When Ge 4/4 8001-8004 were delivered in 1995,
the DZe 6/6 could be released from such duties. AFAIK 2001 is stored, 2002
serves as historic engine.

Panoramic Express history:

1976 prototype coach: As 110
1979 first composition: As 111, Bs 220-221 and BDe 4/4 3005+3006 (3004 and 3003
were subsequently fitted with matching paint as replacements)
1982 second composition: As 112, Bs 222,224, Brs 223 usually pulled by a ABDe
8/8 4001-4004
1983 GDe 4/4 take over, fifth coach: As 114, Bs 225
1985 Superpanoramic-Express weekend first class only with BDe 4/4 3005, Ars 115
and Ast 116
1986 BDe 4/4 3006 and Ast 117 added to Superpanoramic-Express (3003/3004 could
be used as replacement), As 110 could be taken out of standard Panoramic comp.
on weekends and put in Superpanoramic.
1987 Bs 220-221 rebuilt with bar Brs 220-221
-- all coaches built to date have reused bogies, the following arrive with new
SIG bogies
1989,90,93 additional coaches Bs 226-227, As 117-118
1993 Crystal Panoramic weekend first class only with Breda coaches Arst 151-152
and As 153-154
1995 Golden Panoramic (1st and 2nd) with Ast 116-117, Brs 221 and Brs 228 ex Ars
115
-- painted in the new colours were GDe 4/4 6003 and 6004 but also 6001-6002
could be used.
2000 entirely new concept with "Golden Pass Panoramic" (GPP), using Ge 4/4
8003-8004, two driving trailers plus three (in necessary four) coaches, running
every day, all with 1st and 2nd class, without supplement and "Interregio" (IR)
with coaches of Panoramic stock.

formation of GPP:
Ast 116 or 117, both with cab direction Mx
Brs 221 or 228
Bs 229 or 230 ex As 111-112
Ge 4/4 8003 or 8004
Bs 226 or 227 if necessary (not yet in new livery)
Bs ex As 153-154
Arst 151 or 152, both with cab direction Zs
[source: SER 4-7/2000]

timetable:
GPP Mx 1028 - Zs 1215 / Zs 1244 - Mx 1428 / Mx 1628 - Zs 1815
GPP* Zs 1044 - Mx 1228 / Mx 1428 - Zs 1615 / Zs 1644 - Mx 1828
IR Zs 0944 - Mx 1128 / Mx 1228 - Zs 1415 / Zs 1444 - Mx 1628 / Mx 1828 - Zs 2015

GPP* does not run from 1 Nov - 30 April but is replaced with "standard"
Panoramic stock. This would mean that during this time period one more train
Zs - Mx must be run with GPP and one more train Mx - Zs with Panoramic stock.

In 1981 I was hauled by one on the 5 coach panoramic express
See list above, fifth panoramic coach only arrived 1982

[...] Also the 6000 series GDe. There are 4 machines only. Our list
moderator has stated that until May 1994 there were dedicated freight
trains with a 6000 as power, and that a 6000 had to be at the
Zwisimmen end of the line for freight work. [...]
was restricted to Saanen - Zweisimmen in the last years, so should have been the
same GDe doing both (transporter truck trains and freight train)

Perhaps I need to stand and watch for a
whole day on the lineside somewhere, [...]
even if you did it in 1993, you would have seen very different things in July
and in November. November you could meet Panoramic Express with 3005+3006,
because a GDe was on maintenance.

How was heavy and routine maintenance fitted in with the regulat
timetable, and what, if any, spare power was available in case of
emergency or accident damage?
Politics of MOB had always been to have all recent rolling stock available
during summer season (July-September). Maintenance of GDe would be made in
November, when trains could be reduced to three coaches. Until 1989 MOB did not
have replacement vehicles for Panoramic trains. If a coach had to go to the
shops, a standard coach would have been put in.

All trains limited to Les Avants or Gstaad/Ch�teau-d'Oex were operated with the
6 available push-pull compositions 3001-3002 and 5001-5004.

For through trains 4001-4004, a couple of 3003...3006, 2001-2002 and 6001-6004,
a total of 11 units, were available in 1994. 1993/94 timetable needed 7 of them,
3 ABDe 8/8 mainly for through trains calling at all the stations, 3 GDe 4/4 for
fast trains. 1 GDe 4/4 would do freight trains Mo-Fr and Crystal Panoramic
Sa/Su. Backup for GDe 4/4 were 2001-2002 and 3003...4004 off-season.

That is how I remind it and it can be confirmed with photos and timetables.

Markus Giger


Re: MOB and service provision.

tudor erich
 

Thank you for the reply. But were they in use in 1992
and 1993, or was it before this they were out of
service?
--- Stefan Dringenberg <std@rail-info.ch> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
Re DZe 2001 and 2002. Are these units used in
regular service? <BR>
<BR>
No, they are out of service for years now. 2001 is
divided into some <BR>
parts. It can be found at the Montbovon depot. 2002
was the last DZe in <BR>
service and stand now in the outbuilding of
Gstaad.<BR>
<BR>
AFAIK a large company from Vevey will pay for the
restauration of DZe <BR>
6/6 2001. Don't now when the work will begin...<BR>
<BR>
Stefan<BR>
-- <BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
__<BR>
&nbsp; / Stefan Dringenberg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
__/&nbsp; /__&nbsp;&nbsp; EMail:
std@rail-info.ch&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
/<BR>
/ Rail-Info Schweiz&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
/__&nbsp;&nbsp; __/&nbsp; WWW&nbsp; : <a
href="http://www.rail-info.ch/">http://www.rail-info.ch/</a>
/<BR>
/ Rail-Info Switzerland&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
/__/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PGP&nbsp; : Public key
available&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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BLS Ae8/8

John Whitby <john.p.whitby@...>
 

Hello All,
I read with interest the posting from Markus about BLS loco availability but does anyone know the current status of BLS Ae8/8 no.273. In mid January it was hard at work on AlpTransit trains with Ae8/8 no.275 but for most of the last week of January it was parked out of service at Kandersteg. I assume that it may have suffered some mechanical/electrical problem.
Any information will be gratefully received.
Best wishes,
John


Re: MOB and service provision.

Stefan Dringenberg <std@...>
 

tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Re DZe 2001 and 2002. Are these units used in regular service?
No, they are out of service for years now. 2001 is divided into some
parts. It can be found at the Montbovon depot. 2002 was the last DZe in
service and stand now in the outbuilding of Gstaad.

AFAIK a large company from Vevey will pay for the restauration of DZe
6/6 2001. Don't now when the work will begin...

Stefan
--
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/ Rail-Info Schweiz /__ __/ WWW : http://www.rail-info.ch/ /
/ Rail-Info Switzerland /__/ PGP : Public key available /


Schilthorn

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Robert Austin" <robert3304@yahoo.com>
Hi,I have been trying to locate some information
concerning the history and construction of the
Schilthorn.Can you help me out?
One thinks that the Schilthorn was erected about the same time as Eiger, M�nch
and Jungfrau. Exact date is not known, as there were no historians nearby. ;-)

If you would rather like to know, when the cabelway ("Luftseilbahn") was
constructed, there is quite more information around. There is even a booklet
"Schilthorn umstgeigen" from 1979, also available in English. And in the
Schweers book "Jungfrauregion" are some informations. The Schilthornbahn (LSMS)
consists of four sections and was opened in 1965 and 67. A speciality is that
section 1 Stechelberg - Gimmelwald and section 2 Gimmelwald - M�rren only have
one cabin each, being pulled by the same rope. They start simultaneousely in
M�rren and Stechelberg and meet in Gimmelwald where passengers can change. After
this, the two cabins go out at the same time again. It could not be built as one
through going section, because there is an angle of about 44� between the two
lines in Gimmelwald. A cabelway going straight down from M�rren to Stechelberg
was built for goods transport only. Some months ago this installation got a
federal concession and can now serve as backup when section 1 and 2 need
reapair, but only off-season, as capacity is restricted. On such occasions a
minibus goes from M�rren to Gimmelwald (there is no road down to Stechelberg).
The route post bus Lauterbrunnen - Stechelberg and cabelway to M�rren is in fact
a competitor to the BLM, going up with a funicular ("Standseilbahn") to
Gr�tschalp and then continues with a meter gauge railway to M�rren.

Section 3 M�rren - Birg was the first opened on 13 March 1965, followed by
sections 1 and 2 on (necessarily the same date) 23 June 1965. Section 4 Birg -
Schilthorn opened 12 June 1967. The famed turning restaurant on the top was
finished in 1969. Before being opened it served as acting place "Piz Gloria" in
a James Bond film. The name "Piz Gloria" was kept as a good marketing name.

Is this what you wanted to know? Ask, if you need more information.

Markus Giger


MOB and service provision.

tudor erich
 

Re DZe 2001 and 2002. Are these units used in regular service? In
1981 I was hauled by one on the 5 coach panoramic express out of
Montreux. Photos in published sources seem not to show the units very
often, and then mostly on freights. What has been their use since
1992 on the line, specifically, did they work regular diagrms in 1992
and 1993?
Also the 6000 series GDe. There are 4 machines only. Our list
moderator has stated that until May 1994 there were dedicated freight
trains with a 6000 as power, and that a 6000 had to be at the
Zwisimmen end of the line for freight work. What duties did these
perform, was it the case that they worked passenger trains as well as
freight? How did the MOB power the Panoramic sets (2 each way each
day) around these freight commitments. Interesting but not of earth
shattering importance I know. Perhaps I need to stand and watch for a
whole day on the lineside somewhere, BUT there are now new loks and
local sets available which will alter what I see.......
How was heavy and routine maintenance fitted in with the regulat
timetable, and what, if any, spare power was available in case of
emergency or accident damage?
Thank You.


Re: Books on Swiss Railways.

mhardyrandall@...
 

The dealer John Cocking who traded under the name Swiss Book Service,
did not pass away. He closed down and reopened in Salisbury under a
new trading name.
There are many dealers in Switzerland who offer second hand books and
publish catalogues at regular intervals. A good way of getting help
with those out of print books.
Regards
Malcolm


Fw: [BahnCH] BLS Re 465 on repair

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

In BahnCH it was asked, if BLS had a power shortage. BLS answered directly
(Original German text is after this message):

Three Re 465 and one Re 425 (brown Re 4/4 161-195) are undergoing repairs after
a collision in Basel/Weil on 28 March (465 005 and 018) and a short-circuit due
to a collision of the pantograph with a bird (!) on 30 March (465 016). On 1
April an Re 425 suffered a damage on the bearings. SBB provided replacements for
the Re 465 with two Re 420/430 (Re 4/4 II/III). BLS itself pressed Ae 4/4 252
and Ae 6/8 205 into light duties. There is enough motive power for all duties.

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <media@bls.ch>
An: <BahnCH@yahoogroups.com>
Gesendet: Freitag, 6. April 2001 16:46
Betreff: [BahnCH] Aw: Verunfallte Re 465

Am Unfall in Basel/Weil vom 28.03.01 waren die Re 465 005 (Eigentum
BLS) und die Re 465 018 (Eigentum SBB) beteiligt. An beiden Loks
wurden die Deformations-Elemente ("Knautschzonen") zwischen Puffer
und Kasten programmgem�ss vollst�ndig eingedr�ckt. Die Lok
005 wird in Spiez repariert. Die 018 wird in Yverdon untersucht. Von
seiten SBB wurde sogleich Ersatz gestellt durch zwei Re 420/430.

Nach der Kollision eines Vogels mit dem Stromabnehmer der Re 465 016
(Eigentum SBB) am fr�hen Morgen des 30.03.01 in Maroggia-Melano
kam es zum Brand der Dachausr�stung der Lok. Die Reparatur findet
in Yverdon statt.

Am 01.04.01 erlitt eine BLS Re 425 einen Lagerschaden, der eine
gr�ssere Reparatur erforderlich macht.

Die Situation ist damit f�r die BLS nicht dramatisch. Der Bestand
erlaubte es, in der zu Ende gehenden Woche alle geplanten
Traktionsleistungen auszuf�hren. Und f�r Samstag, 07.04.01
(Ferienreiseverkehr Richtung S�den und Staulage am Gotthard), wird
der Einsatz von 7 Autozug-Kompositionen f�r den Verkehr Kandersteg-
Goppenstein vorgesehen.

Hans Martin Schaer


Re: Books on Swiss Railways.

glenn allen
 

There is/was a company called The Swiss Book Service
in England, I believe the owner passed on but the wife
carreid on the business, does anyone know if they are
still going, I suspect that if they are tehy would be
a good source of hard to get books.

--- John Whitby <john.p.whitby@lineone.net> wrote:
"The book 'The History of the Gotthard Railway' is
still available
from the author, [me
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Re: Books on Swiss Railways.

John Whitby <john.p.whitby@...>
 

"The book 'The History of the Gotthard Railway' is still available
from the author, [me]. I secured some copies from the publisher in
lieu of payment before he closed down.
Regards
Malcolm"

Malcolm,
I couldn't let the opportunity pass to thank you for producing such an
excellent book. It is an invaluable source of information for anyone
interested in this great rail route. Can I also apologise for not mentioning
the fact that the book, although published in England, was written and
compiled in SCOTLAND.
Thanks again,
John.
http://website.lineone.net/~john.p.whitby



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Re: Books on Swiss Rail

Brian Clough <bclough@...>
 

--- In SwissRail@y..., mhardyrandall@a... wrote:
Hi,

The book on the History of the Gotthard Railway is still available
from the author, me, if you wish to order.

On the subject of other books on the Swiss Railways, have you
contacted Midland Counties Publications at
Midlandbooks@c... The company publishes a catalogue of
second hand books. that is in stock and also operates a 'wish list'
so that a persom may place an order for specific books when they
become available.

Hope that helps.
Bi
:-)
I have had good luck with WWW.ALIBRIS.COM when looking for out of print
books. They found me George Drury's "Swiss Rail Guide", and I'm sure
they could help with the titles mentioned here.

B Clough


Administrative

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Those who think, their messages would take very long to appear on SwissRail shuold check, whether they have sent me an answer to my little questions I ask in the welcome mail. New members have the setting "moderated" which means that I have to approve every message before it appears. I put this setting to standard, as soon, as a member sends me his answer to the welcom mail.
 
In the next days I will again ask all members of unkown location to answer me the questions. It is just to have an idea of the interests and background of the members. I do not pass such informations to anybody else.
 
Thanks
Markus Giger


Re: Books on Swiss Rail

mhardyrandall@...
 

Hi,

The book on the History of the Gotthard Railway is still available
from the author, me, if you wish to order.

On the subject of other books on the Swiss Railways, have you
contacted Midland Counties Publications at
Midlandbooks@compuserve.com. The company publishes a catalogue of
second hand books. that is in stock and also operates a 'wish list'
so that a persom may place an order for specific books when they
become available.

Hope that helps.
Bi
:-)


Books on Swiss Railways.

mhardyrandall@...
 

The book 'The History of the Gotthard Railway' is still available
from the author, [me]. I secured some copies from the publisher in
lieu of payment before he closed down.
On the wider subject of books on the Swiss Railways, there are very
few in English and they will be second hand. Titles that come to mind
are 'Simplon/Lötschberg', 'Bahnen im Jura' and 'Die Gotthardbahn' all
by Marti and Trüb.
A company down in England called Midland Publishing [part of Ian
Allan] produce a catalogue of second hand books for sale.
Hope that helps.
Regards
Malcolm


Re: Books on Swiss Rail

John Whitby <john.p.whitby@...>
 

Hello Peter,
You don't say which language you are most interested in but from an English
language viewpoint I would strongly recommend the following:
"The Swiss Railways Saga .....150 Years of Swiss Trains" by Hans Peter
Treichler.
published 1996
ISBN 3-905111-16-0
"Bahnpanorama Schweiz" by Harald Nav�
published 1996
ISBN 3-85738054-3
Both books deal with the railways of Switzerland from their conception to
recent times (1996) in words and pictures and should still be available from
a specialist book shop or Amazon.
Although specific to a particular railway another English language book that
I like is:
"The History of the Gotthard Railway" by M.Hardy-Randall
published 1997
ISBN 0-9531841-0-2
This book was published in England and will probably be much harder to
obtain as I think the publisher has ceased trading.
These are just a few of my favourites and I am sure that there are many more
suitable books available in other languages.
Best wishes,
John.

----- Original Message -----
From: <peter.sember@team.telstra.com>
To: <SwissRail@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 6:34 AM
Subject: [SwissRail] Books on Swiss Rail



Hi,

I am trying to find titles of good books on Swiss railways -
present and history?

Thanks in Advance


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Books on Swiss Rail

peter.sember@...
 

Hi,

I am trying to find titles of good books on Swiss railways -
present and history?

Thanks in Advance


Modernised De 4/4

Gary Klouda <Gary.Sheryl.Klouda@...>
 

Roco have recently announced an HO scale model of the modernised SBB De
4/4, as used on the Seetal line. I have seen notice that there will also
be a Swiss-only version of this locomotive. The illustration in their
new-items brochure shows a red loco with no safety stripes on the end.
Does anyone on the list know if the Swiss-only version will have these
stripes? TIA, - Gary


Re: re MOB workings

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
What would have been the formation of the two trains, early and late,
advertised as second only, no conductor?
All such trains were usually run with 3001-3002/3301-3302 or
5001-5004/(305-306)/5301-5304. The reason to indicate theam as second
class only can be found in the history, when the local trains were run by 1001.
Perhaps to have the possibility to run these trains with 1001 in case one
of the other trainsets failed, MOB kept the text unchanged. With the new
timetable layout 94/95 it disappeared.

Were post coaches worked to specific diagrams as on the RhB and FO or
just added as required?
I found the postal edition of the official timetable 93/94 and 90/91. In this
edition, there was a red addition showing trains disposed for postal transports
or RPO. It shows, that the following trains were running with RPO: 213/222 and
225/234 and 464 (apparently came back empty or post was transported in the
baggage compartment of 3001-3002):

213 Mx 0700 Zs 0900 Mo - Sa
222 Zs 1200 Mx 1400 Mo - Sa

225 Mx 1300 Zs 1500 Mo - Fr
234 Zs 1800 Mx 2000 Mo - Fr

464 Zs 0626 Sa 0710 Mo - Fr

two RPO met at 1330 in Les Cases

I put a scan of the MOB pages of 93/94 timetable in the files section of
SwissRail, together with explanation of signs.

Markus Giger


Re: re MOB workings

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: <tudoryork@yahoo.co.uk>
Thank you for the information. Can you help more please?
Sorry, no. It is all from my memory and with the aid of some photos. I do
neither have graphic timetables of that period nor tables of train
compostitions. It might even be, that the latter, indicating every detail, does
not exist on MOB as train compositions were always adapted to demand. So, what
would it be good for, if it is only a general guideline but not the exact status
of day-to-day-operation? What do you want to do with these informations?

You have to be aware, that MOB mostly did not have more than 4 identical
vehicles. If possible, all the latest rolling stock was rolling as much as
possible. When replacement was needed, it would usually be an older vehicle,
possibly with different properties. If a 6000 failed, the replacing 4000 or
double-3000 could only pull 4 cars instead of 5. Perhaps a DZe 6/6 was used
instead (as on 14 Jan 1994), but with lower maximum speed. Then, I found a
picture in a book, showing a panoramic express on 14 July 1993 behind a 6000
with only four coaches: During summer holidays! - why? I do not know. Another
picture shows DZe 6/6 2002 with five panoramic coaches on 23 July 1992 on the
Lenk branch.

You might wish to ask MOB itself, perhaps they have in their files what you are
looking for.

Were post coaches worked to specific diagrams as on the RhB and FO or
just added as required?
sure they worked on specific diagrams, as on all Swiss railways. There was
always a panel in one window, indicating the train numbers, the post van would
go with.

Markus Giger


FO locomotives and Brig flooding September 1993

tudor erich
 

I believe the FO had to borrow from the BVZ to provide traction for
some workings after the floods at Brig. I believe I have seen a photo
of a modern BVZ lok on the Oberalp section. Can anyone confirm,and
which loks were involved. Thank you.