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Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

David Prior
 

Thank you to all for taking time to post these many interesting replies - it’s much appreciated.

The image I originally mentioned on the wall at Davos Platz station does indeed have two traction units ; behind the Gem4/4 is what I believe to be an ABe 4/4 II, in line with what many have reported/photographed.

David


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

gordonwis
 

Here is my 2009 picture


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

gordonwis
 

I posted one of my pictures on a Facebook 'loco bashing' group in June last year captioned thus:

RhB 802 and 45 entering Bernina - Lagalb station southbound. 19/8/2009

[it was a timetabled passenger train]


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

Guerbetaler
 

Am 16.05.2021 um 00:53 schrieb Mick Sasse:
but having checked my moves book: Nope, it was September 2007
Thanks for looking up. I can also offer photos of 2007. Serching the internet, I found photos of 2009 of mixed MUs
https://bahnbilder.ch/picture/5290

And, very interesting, an MU of 801 and 802 pulling BEX in 2010
https://bahnbilder.ch/picture/6840

I can't find photos or indications that a Gem was on a passenger train after 2010.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

Mick Sasse
 

I was thinking "surely I've had a Gem more recently than 2011?!" - but having checked my moves book: Nope, it was September 2007, on the way from Aleppo to South Gosforth via Alp Grüm... (802+44 on the 09:06 [Tirano -] Alp G - Pontresina [- St M] on 10/09/2007)

Now that's what I call a sign of ageing!!!


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

Guerbetaler
 

Am 15.05.2021 um 21:44 schrieb DAVID STEVENSON via groups.io:
I have several photos of the Gems operating, even as late as 2011,
with one of the ABes
I would be very much interested in 2011 photos, as the ABe 4/4 II went out of passenger use by the end of 2010.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

Guerbetaler
 

Am 15.05.2021 um 22:11 schrieb Andy:
The Gems were, in fact, designed as express engines, (in one sense) in that they were designed to haul the Bernina Express from Chur to and through Pontresina using diesel,
Sorry, Andy, this is not a fact. Fact is, that this use of Gem only started five years after their delivery and was a way to overcome the flaws of the ancient Pontresina track plan. Finally they pulled the BEX, which then only existed in Summer, between 1973 and 81. And they only pulled it out of Samedan, not out of Chur!

But the intention of RhB when they ordered these locomotives was to get two snow clearing trains that could operate in diesel mode. Together with Gem 801-802 the Xrot et 9218-19 were delivered. Even if they were electric rotary snowploughs, it was possible to use one of Gem's diesel generator group to feed the Xrot et while the second one was used for the (slow) traction of the train.

It was also intended to use these locomotives to replace the remaining steam locomotives in any use. 1971 during repair work in the Magnacun tunnel, which required the electric wire to be taken down, Gem 802 pulled the trains through the tunnel.

Finally it was intended to get additional motive power for the Summer season on the Bernina line.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

glenn allen
 

801 & 802 worked on passenger trains, I have photos of them from 1987 to 2009 as either the lead or second vehicle on passenger trains. In recent years I’ve only seen them on infrastructure trains or working with a snowblower.

 

 


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

Andy
 

Hello Dave,

The Gems were, in fact, designed as express engines, (in one sense) in that they were designed to haul the Bernina Express from Chur to and through Pontresina using diesel, continuing along the line non-stop until they stopped to pass another train, whereupon the pantographs were raised and the diesels turned off, before continuing to Tirano. In winter, when the Bex was short (up to five coaches), a single Gem was sufficient but from the expansion in the summer to more coaches (I've seen photos of up to 9 - all green in the early days), both Gems were used.

Later, by the mid '80s, there are photos of them hauling localzug single-handed and, as Glyn has mentioned, to help double-head the summer Bex. This was because in those days, for a while, the Bex was not allowed to pick up 'local' passengers so the railcars (the 40s in those days; with the 50s as of 1988), had to run empty. Since tourist trains were pretty full in the summer in the late 80s, the 40s tended to be used for the busiest trains of the day, which they could only do if a Gem were used for the Bex. Since if bookings were high the Bex then ran in two parts (Bex A-D), both Gem could indeed be seen occasionally heading express trains as originally intended.

I think the last time I saw a Gem heading a timetabled passenger train was in 2011, and then only as a replacement for what would normally have been a 40, which presumably had failed. By that time the Allegra were multiplying and it would not be long before the 40s also stopped being used for passenger trains...

Hope that brief 'general history' helps,

Regards, Andy McMillan


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

DAVID STEVENSON
 

I have several photos of the Gems operating, even as late as 2011, with one of the ABes. Haven’t been since. It would be rare to see one on it’s own though with a passenger train.

DAVE S


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

Guerbetaler
 

Am 15.05.2021 um 17:54 schrieb David Prior via groups.io:
I’m just interested to know whether 801/802 have any passenger train
history.
Until the modernization of the ABe 4/4 III 51-56 it was possible to freely combine any two out of 41-49, 51-56 and 801-802. Thus Gem+ABe was an often seen combination.

801-802 were needed for snow clearing and for work trains in diesel mode. But that wasn't every day. Without such tasks they were used in normal daily traffic, especially during the Summer season (when snow blowing was rare ;-))

In times when the Bernina-Express still was a group of short green EW I, uncoupled from the St. Moritz train in Samedan, 801+802 were for some time the diagrammed motive power for the Bernina-Express. They took over the group of coaches in Samedan and worked in diesel mode to the first stop after Pontresina (they can only switch the mode when stopped). This was until 1981, when Pontresina station was rebuilt and allowed ac trains to enter on track 3.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: BLS Liveries

Guerbetaler
 

Am 15.05.2021 um 17:58 schrieb Guerbetaler:
Usually I use an Excel sheet with this formula, which I have developed
I have to add that the number must be entered without space and hyphen.

If you enter 11 digits, the check digit is shown
If you enter 12 digits, a 0 shows that the number is correct

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: BLS Liveries

Guerbetaler
 

Am 14.05.2021 um 20:54 schrieb Guerbetaler:

To come back on the check digits
BLS A 50 63 89-33 827-4 correct
BN B 50 63 20-33 707-3 wrong, should be -0, but 707 was the number after door rebuild
GBS B 50 63 20-33 891-5 wrong, should be -2, but 891 is BN, not GBS
SEZ B 50 63 20-33 871-4 correct

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: BLS Liveries

Guerbetaler
 

Am 15.05.2021 um 18:22 schrieb Alan McMillan:
_5_0_6_3_8_9_3_3_8_2_7_4 multiplied by
_2_1_2_1_2_1_2_1_2_1_2_1 gives
10 012 316 9 6 316 214 4 sum of digits = 50
Interesting. I was under the impression the check digit wasn’t
included in the calculation since that’s what you trying to derive,
so how do you include it in the calculation unless you’ve calculated
it. Sounds like a catch 22 to me!
If it’s included in how it’s derived, how is it derived before you
know what it is?
My head hurts!
If you have 11 digits, the result gives the check digit:
modulo(46;10) = 4

If you have 12 digits, the result shows, if the number is correct:
modulo(50;10) = 0

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

glyn.jones
 

Hi,

I have a photo I took in 2005 in Poschiavo of the Bernina Express being
hauled by Gem 801 and Abe 4/4 44 heading to Pontersina with 801 leading.

Regards,

Glyn


Re: BLS Liveries

Alan McMillan
 

Usually I use an Excel sheet with this formula, which I have developed
Thanks very much Markus. You're a star!

Alan


Re: BLS Liveries

Alan McMillan
 

_5_0_6_3_8_9_3_3_8_2_7_4 multiplied by
_2_1_2_1_2_1_2_1_2_1_2_1 gives
10 012 316 9 6 316 214 4 sum of digits = 50
Interesting. I was under the impression the check digit wasn’t included in the calculation since that’s what you trying to derive, so how do you include it in the calculation unless you’ve calculated it. Sounds like a catch 22 to me!

If it’s included in how it’s derived, how is it derived before you know what it is?

My head hurts!



Alan



From: main@SwissRail.groups.io [mailto:main@SwissRail.groups.io] On Behalf Of Guerbetaler
Sent: 15 May 2021 16:36
To: main@SwissRail.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SwissRail] BLS Liveries



Am 15.05.2021 um 09:23 schrieb Alan McMillan:

Unless I've used the wrong formula (I don't think so, I've seen it mentioned in several places), the numbers should be:
827-1


_5_0_6_3_8_9_3_3_8_2_7_4 multiplied by
_2_1_2_1_2_1_2_1_2_1_2_1 gives
10 012 316 9 6 316 214 4 sum of digits = 50

Markus


Control Digits (was BLS liveries)

Martin Baumann
 

https://www.revisionsdaten.de/kontrollziffer/index.php

www.rollingstockregister.ch

Both do the calculation for you

The former will work with any number of digits the latter you need 11


Re: BLS Liveries

Guerbetaler
 

Am 15.05.2021 um 09:28 schrieb Alan McMillan:
What formula are you using Markus?
Usually I use an Excel sheet with this formula, which I have developed and which proved reliable with hundreds of freight cars:

=REST(10-REST(2*TEIL(A1;1;1)-ABRUNDEN(2*TEIL(A1;1;1)/10;0)*9
+TEIL(A1;2;1)+2*TEIL(A1;3;1)-ABRUNDEN(2*TEIL(A1;3;1)/10;0)*9
+TEIL(A1;4;1)+2*TEIL(A1;5;1)-ABRUNDEN(2*TEIL(A1;5;1)/10;0)*9
+TEIL(A1;6;1)+2*TEIL(A1;7;1)-ABRUNDEN(2*TEIL(A1;7;1)/10;0)*9
+TEIL(A1;8;1)+2*TEIL(A1;9;1)-ABRUNDEN(2*TEIL(A1;9;1)/10;0)*9
+TEIL(A1;10;1)+2*TEIL(A1;11;1)-ABRUNDEN(2*TEIL(A1;11;1)/10;0)*9;10)-WENN(LÄNGE(A1)=12;TEIL(A1;12;1);0);10)

(sorry, Excel doesn't translate for me but you can open the XLSX I have attached and you will see the formula in your language)

ABRUNDEN(2*TEIL(A1;1;1)/10;0)*9

works like this:

2*8/10=1.6 rounded to 1 *9 = 9

2*4/10=0.8 rounded to 0 *9 = 0

So I can subtract 9 from two-digit results

Markus


RhB : Bernina Gem 4/4

David Prior
 

I paid a call to Davos Platz today (to have a trip with Ge4/4i 605), and saw a large poster in the booking hall. Despite having been there 5-6 times during 2020/21, I hadn’t noticed this before (unobservant, or it’s recent).

Advertising the panoramic Bernina Express service is a picture of the train near - I think - Lago Bianco / Ospizio Bernina, headed by electro-diesel Gem4/4 801.

Can anyone confirm whether this was ever “usual”, or is a photo of a very rare working ? I’m just interested to know whether 801/802 have any passenger train history.

Probably a quite naive question, but I’ve never read a report of those two and not been around long enough to place this photo.

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