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Re: Steepest adhesion railway

Guerbetaler
 

Am 15.06.2016 um 15:19 schrieb 'George Raymond':
The street named Kohlenberg in Basel rises steeply from
Barfüsserplatz to Musik-Akademie on line 3.
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Basel_2012-09-28_Mattes_(61).JPG>

<https://map.geo.admin.ch/?zoom=12&X=267068&Y=611263&layers=ch.bav.haltestellen-oev,ch.swisstopo-vd.ortschaftenverzeichnis_plz,ch.swisstopo.swissboundaries3d-gemeinde-flaeche.fill&layers_visibility=true,false,false&lang=de&topic=ech&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo.swissimage&layers_opacity=1,0.75,1&crosshair=marker>


Re: Steepest adhesion railway

George Raymond
 

That 7.96 gradient is on the Kohlenberg hill which is served by lines
15/16 not 3
The street named Kohlenberg in Basel rises steeply from Barfüsserplatz to Musik-Akademie on line 3. I understand that when a coupled set of three non-articulated trams climb this grade, two of them must be powered.

George


Re: Steepest adhesion railway

Chris Wood
 

That 7.96 gradient is on the Kohlenberg hill which is served by lines 15/16 not 3
I stand corrected. I took the reference from this:

Gemäss Eisenbahnverordnung sind bei Neubaustrecken Steigungen bis 4% zulässig, unter
besonderen Bedingungen auch solche bis 7% . In Basel gibt es auf der Linie 3 am Kohlenberg
einen kurzen Abschnitt mit 7,96% Steigung. Dort dürfen nur stark motorisierte Tramzüge verkehren.
which comes from http://www.tram8.info/index.php?id=tramlexikon, which I believe to be the official web site of the project to extend the Basel trams to Weil. Certainly the site has an impressive list of sponsors on its home page, included the Swiss Government, the canton of Basel-Stadt and the BVB, so I took it as being authoritative. You live and learn.


Re: Steepest adhesion railway

Martin Baumann
 

That 7.96 gradient is on the Kohlenberg hill which is served by lines 15/16 not 3


Re: Domodossola - Brig

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 14.06.2016 um 04:28 schrieb csipromo@... [SwissRail]:
I was reading a German language report that stated that traffic
between Domodossola and Iselle would fall under the responsibility of
FS Infrastructure (Rete Ferroviaria Italiana - RFI).
Iselle - Domodossola is, was and will be under the responsability of RFI, formerly FS. It has been mentioned as a special case in many circumstances that you will find there Italian railwaymen working after the Swiss rulebook. The Swiss-type signals are connected to Italian signal boxes, which isn't always without problems and has lead, at least once, to a collision.

I presume that the section will still be powered by the Swiss voltage
system (to Domodossola/Domo I/Domo II).
The only task of SBB is to provide this section with electrical energy and to maintain the catenary. In order to not invest too much in Italy ;-) SBB has always put mobile transformers on the section (actually 2 FUW in Varzo).

At some future point, would there be a consideration of having the
locomotive changeover at Brig instead of Domodossola?
No change of the situation that exists for almost 100 years is intended. Moreover it has to be taken into account that the border between RFI and SBB Infrastructure is in Iselle, not in Brig. The Swiss section of the Simplon tunnel is owned by SBB and the Italian section is given by an Italian concession to the Swiss Confederation which passes it on to SBB Infrastructure.

Markus, G�rbetal


Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel open, tunnel capacity

Martin Baumann
 

To confuse the issue some cargo 460 diagrams had passenger work and the segregation was not strictly adhered to. Looking at my moves for January 2000 for example several Cargo 460 were on passenger


Re: Steepest adhesion railway

Simon
 

[Top posting and full quote repaired by the moderator]
Basel tram line 3 is essentially flat from one end to the other so I'd be interested to know where the 7.96% came from ? As an aside, the extension of line 3 into France and St Loius railway station is under way. There's a lot of digging going on along the French route and the strengthening of the bridge over the Swiss airport road is now complete. The Swiss side is all but complete with track laid and catenary posts up.


Domodossola - Brig

csipromo
 

I was reading a German language report that stated that traffic between Domodossola and Iselle would fall under the responsibility of FS Infrastructure (Rete Ferroviaria Italiana - RFI).


I presume that the section will still be powered by the Swiss voltage system (to Domodossola/Domo I/Domo II). At some future point, would there be a consideration of having the locomotive changeover at Brig instead of Domodossola?


Regards


Mike C


Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel open, tunnel capacity

csipromo
 

Thanks for the update and correction. I did not know that they were transferred in two batches. I had assumed that all of them had been ceded to Personenverkehr by my visits in October 2003 and February 2004. I will use the corrected information in the planning of model consists.


Regards


Mike C


Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel open, tunnel capacity

gordonwis
 

I looked at the graphic and what I noticed is that the traffic routed via Luino is nearly all in the train number series allocated to 'Intermodal Gotthard' freight., ie "Internat. Güterzüge des kombinierten Verkehrs (UKV) (Klassierung gemäss UIC-Fiche 419.2) Internat. Güterzüge des kombinierten Verkehrs Gotthard (BKV, Rollende Autobahn mit Begleitwagen für Chauffeure)" Most of the day, there is a path about once per hour in each direction, with a couple of hour periods where an extra one or two paths are squeezed into the hour. The Monte Ceneri route has a much wider variety of freight train types


Re: Steepest adhesion railway

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 13.06.2016 um 15:31 schrieb chris_j_wood@... [SwissRail]:
A quick search of the literature suggests the Basel tram line 3 is
slightly steeper at 7.96% (as against the Uetliberg's 7.9%). But that
is, of course, a tramway, which may or may not count. And it might be
no more than a rounding difference.

Does anybody know of any other Swiss adhesion railways steeper than
the Uetliberg?.
Ufff, all this hunting for records...

Now the steepest standard gauge railway in Switzerland without rack is the TL M2 in Lausanne with 120�! Sure, they have rubbers...

Then, BVB tram infrastructure has a railway concession, so it counts.

In a few years AB will be at the top of the list with 80� in the new Rieth�sli tunnel in St. Gallen.

Finally, the 79� at the Uetliberg are a geometrical reality. But they don't count for traction and braking questions, because it is a too short bit.

Uncheck the boxes you don't like ... :-)

Markus, G�rbetal


Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel open, tunnel capacity

Martin Baumann
 

When the SBB Divisions were started 01.09.1999 460 000 to 078 were passenger and the rest freight


079 to 095 transferred to passenger 15.12.2002 in exchange for 11601-11613 and 11225-11264


096 to 118 transferred to passenger 12.12.2004 in exchange for 11265-11270. At this point 11225-11230 went BACK to passenger.


Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel open, tunnel capacity

OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 13.06.2016 um 15:34 schrieb chris_j_wood@... [SwissRail]:
Of course traffic routed via Luino wouldn't require a second locomotive.
Easy to forget that line. Does much freight traffic actually go that way?.
Yes, but the single track limits the number of trains.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel open, tunnel capacity

Chris Wood
 

Of course traffic routed via Luino wouldn't require a second locomotive.
Easy to forget that line. Does much freight traffic actually go that way?.


Steepest adhesion railway

Chris Wood
 

At present, the English language version of Wikipedia's article on the Uetlibergbahn states that it is the steepest standard gauge adhesion only railway in Switzerland. Another editor has suggested that the words 'standard gauge' can be removed from this statement, as there are no steeper adhesion worked railways of any gauge in Switzerland.


A quick search of the literature suggests the Basel tram line 3 is slightly steeper at 7.96% (as against the Uetliberg's 7.9%). But that is, of course, a tramway, which may or may not count. And it might be no more than a rounding difference.


Does anybody know of any other Swiss adhesion railways steeper than the Uetliberg?.


Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel open, tunnel capacity

csipromo
 

Re 460s were a normal sight in front of freight trains from 1993 to around 2003. Initially, the locos were part of a unified fleet and were assigned all kinds of services. Around 1998, the fleet was divided between Passenger and Cargo divisions. 460 000 to 460 072 were assigned to passenger operation and 460 073 to 460 118 were assigned to cargo operations. In 2002-2003, the Re 460s assigned to Cargo division were transferred to SBB Personenverkehr in exchange for a number of Re 4/4II and the remaining Re 6/6 fleet which were assigned to SBB Cargo.

Regards


Mike C


Re: TPC (AOMC) open day

gordonwis
 

This even takes place on Sunday (not Saturday) 19th June, which is this Sunday...when I am in the area...


TPC (AOMC) open day

Martin Baumann
 

Saturday 19th June


https://www.facebook.com/transportspublicschablais/photos/pcb.784717891629561/784716128296404/?type=3


The depot at En Chalex will be open to the public. There will be free travel all day between Monthey and Aigle all day


BLS 420 Sightings 11/06

Andrew Bond
 

Today's loco hauled turns between Interlaken and Zweisimmen were in the hands of 420501 and 420504.
Regards
Andrew
Sent from my Samsung device


Re: Gotthard Base Tunnel open, tunnel capacity

John Beaulieu
 

Of course traffic routed via Luino wouldn't require a second locomotive.

John Beaulieu

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Gordon Wiseman gordonwis@...
[SwissRail] <SwissRail@...> wrote:

1) Something like 460 on freight already happens: 465s are already hauling
some faster type freights (ie those with modern container wagons)


2) A single Re6/6 can probably indeed haul 1400 on the flat, but until the
Monte Ceneri incline is replaced by something 'flat' I assume Re10/10s will
continue.


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