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Re: WRS Ae 1042 041 Query

Andrew Moglestue
 

I believe those grain hoppers are Romanian.

But this does not mean the grain is actually from Romania as sometimes such wagons also get loaned or leased.


Re: False memories?

csipromo
 

Most of my travel when I was there in 1971/72 was on international trains or on fast trains. We did not use the local "lamp post" trains. That said, I was a big fan of looking out the window and most of the trains that we crossed were pulled by Ae 6/6 and the occasional train made up of a Re 4/4II with baggage and a handful of EWI, EWII and lightsteel coaches. From what I recall, and it aligns with what is written in Bruno Lammli's website lokifahrer.ch, all of the Ae 4/6 were by then stationed in Bellinzona and used on routes in Ticino. Herr Lammli mentions that around the mid 1970s, a few of the remaining Ae 4/6 were used for some domestic trains between Chiasso and Luzern.

Can somebody provide more details about the local traffic in the late 1960s/early 1970s? The local service to Goeschenen started at which station? Did those trains go all the way to Luzern or did they start in Arth-Goldau? I seem to recall that the local trains went from Arth-Goldau in 1985. By my next visit in 1998, the local trains had largely been discontinued and replaced by bus service from Erstfeld or Goeschenen.


By the time of my next visits in late 2003 and early 2004, even the regional trains that used to connect to buses in Goeschenen had been replaced by buses and other than the regionalzuege to Erstfeld, very few trains seemed to made stops between Arth-Goldau and Bellinzona any more.


Regards


Mike C


Re: False memories?

gordonwis
 

Martin wrote:
14 coaches near Wassen 31.08.1957 : Some of the coaches appear to be German and French ,…

Mike C wrote:
I recall having seen the Ae 4/6 at Bellinzona and maybe Lugano, but do not recall seeing them
above Bellinzona in 1971-72. I don't recall seeing the Ae 8/14 in use other than the Landilok which
was already at the Verkehrshaus, What was the main area of operation and duties of the Ae 4/6?
Which locomotives were used for the auto trains?

Re Mike C’s commnets: As I’ve mentioned on this group a few times before, I spent half of a two week Holiday pass holiday in 1974 camping next to the Gotthard at Sisikon (aged 14). Ae4/6 were certainly active on the north ramp at that time, as were the Ae8/14. Ae3/5s worked the Gotthard car shuttles. Looking (nostalgically) through my notes I find that on 17/8/74 we were hauled away from Sisikon by 10811 on the first train of a day excursion to St Moritz. Another morning 10803 was on a GmP at Sisikon. Another day we saw 11401, 11601 and 11602 in quick succsession …and notably… another morning watching session at Sisikon I have noted 11124 + 11114 on 17 coaches… Re Martin’s comment and link: I can't see the photo in large enough size to distinguish any coach type. Also I had not appreciated the track at the classic location used


Dampf-Spektakel in the Gotthard - June 2015

Javier Pena
 

There is a Dampf-Spektatel taking place at the end of June in the Gotthard
route.

According to several info found on the Internet, the trains will operate as
follows:

- On Friday 26th, the German train will arrive to Basel around 14:30 with
01-150 and, after adding 50-3673 to the train, it will travel via the
Hauenstein-Basistunnel and Olten towards Luzern, where it will stay
overnight.

- In the morning of Saturday 27th, the German train will travel via
Arth-Goldau to Erstfeld. Meanwhile, two Swiss trains will travel to
Erstfeld from Lyss and Brugg (AG) using 01-202 & 141R1244 respectively.

- Once in Ersteld, the two Swiss trains will be combined into one and the
two resulting trains will travel along the Gotthard to Bellinzona, arriving
around 19:00. Once there, the German train will travel forward to Lugano.

- Both trains will travel north on Monday 29th, leaving Bellinzona at 8:30,
and with the two Swiss portions again splitting in Erstfeld.

There are, by the way, some discrepancies between Ige-Erlebnisreisen and
ZRT as to which locomotives will be used in each train. Ige-Erlebnisreisen
expect to use both 01 on its train from Basel. See
http://www.ige-erlebnisreisen.de/data/files/Dampf_Gotthard.pdf and
http://www.zrt.ch/uploads/media/ZRT_Damfloktreffen_Gotthard_2015_04.pdf

Any info on confirmed train times will be greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
Javier Peña


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 560 duties

yatton123
 

Thanks Don and Martin for the info, most useful, I'll pass it on
Thanks again.


Re: False memories?

Andy Micklethwaite
 

At 17:17 26/05/2015, Martin wrote:
Be 4/6 piloting Ae 6/6 11410 14 coaches near Wassen 31.08.1957 :
Thanks so much.
Andy.


Re: 560 duties

bs177@...
 

Aarau, and Lausanne come to mind. Lausanne is pickled with them on most duties other than the main line which are Flirts. There's a few down in Ticino, and a limited number around Zurich. Bruce


Re: 560 duties

Martin Baumann
 

S-Bahn Zentralschweiz:
S8 (Sursee - Olten)

S-Bahn Aargau:
S23 (Baden - Langenthal) some trains
S27 (Baden - Bad Zurzach / Waldshut): some trains
S29 (Turgi - Aarau - (Langenthal) some trains
S(26) 8565 (Aarau - Muri AG)


S-Bahn Zürich
S35 (Winterthur - Will) some trains

19021 0544 Rekingen to Stadelhofen 0653
19072 1840 Zürich HB (Track 17) to Wohlen 1916

19029 0732 Koblenz to Stadelhofen 0823
19064 1634 Stadelhofen to Koblenz 1726

S-Bahn Ostwind:

S6 (Rapperswil -Schwanden - (Linthal))

S-Bahn Tessin (TILO):
S10 ((Airolo) - Castione-Arbedo - Chiasso a few trains
S20 (Castione-Arbedo – Locarno a few trains


RER Vaud:
S11 (Lausanne – Yverdon-les-Bains)
S21 (Lausanne–Payerne)
S31 (Vevey – Puidoux-Chexbres)
S (Lausanne–Vallorbe)
R (Vallorbe - Le Brassus)
R (Lausanne–Romont)
R (Payerne– Murten/Morat) some trains
R (Lausanne – St-Maurice)
R (Morges - Neuchâtel)

RER Fribourg:
S30 (Fribourg - Yverdon les Bains) some trains
S40 (Fribourg - Romont)

RE Bern-Bulle some trains

R (Biel - Neuchâtel)
R (La Chaux-de-Fonds - Neuchâtel)


Re: 560 duties

Don
 

I think the SBB Regio services based on Neuchâtel would be a good bet and then Yverdon would also see these units on Payerne services and the semi-fast Lausanne jobs maybe. HTH Don

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WRS Ae 1042 041 Query

Don
 

On Monday, 18th May I was at Sissach mid-afternoon when the WRS Ae 1042 passed southbound with a block train of green liveried cereal hoppers. Details can be viewed via the link provided:
WRS Cereals at Sissach https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/18132367401/in/dateposted-public/



https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/18132367401/in/dateposted-public/

WRS Cereals at Sissach https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/18132367401/in/dateposted-public/ Recorded passing through Sissach en route south from Basel, former Austrian Federal Railways Ae 1042 041 had charge of a block train of 13 Romanian register...



View on www.flickr.com https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/18132367401/in/dateposted-public/
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Has anyone any idea from where the cereal traffic was being conveyed and to where in Switzerland it was to be delivered? Georg Trub saw the train 2 days later heading north to Basel and indicated in his caption that the wagons had been collected from two locations, Sursee and Herzogenbuchsee.
Any help would be appreciated. TIA, Don


Schoellenen Gorge road closed by landlip

stephenhorobin
 

The Schoellenen road has been closed the MGB railway line unaffected.


Felssturz am Gotthard: Schöllenenstrasse bleibt für Wochen zu | Blick http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/felssturz-am-gotthard-schoellenenstrasse-bleibt-fuer-wochen-zu-id3793944.html


http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/felssturz-am-gotthard-schoellenenstrasse-bleibt-fuer-wochen-zu-id3793944.html

Felssturz am Gotthard: Schöllenenstrasse bleibt fü... http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/felssturz-am-gotthard-schoellenenstrasse-bleibt-fuer-wochen-zu-id3793944.html Bereits vergangene Woche ereignete sich zwischen Göschenen und Andermatt ein Felssturz. Wie genauere Abklärungen nun zeigen, muss die Pass-Strasse wegen d...



View on www.blick.ch http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/felssturz-am-gotthard-schoellenenstrasse-bleibt-fuer-wochen-zu-id3793944.html
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Re: False memories?

Martin Baumann
 

Be 4/6 piloting Ae 6/6 11410 14 coaches near Wassen 31.08.1957 :

http://schienenfahrzeuge.netshadow.at/bahngalerie23_500/2007_06_24_657.jpg

Some of the coaches appear to be German and French , second last seems to be a German postal van (Z) and the last coach is an old Swiss postal van


560 duties

yatton123
 

I've been asked by someone who will be visiting Switzerland where the best places to see 560s (but not 560 4xxs) is.
I'm familiar with the workings around Olten . Can anyone suggest other locations that see plenty of these units.
Thanks in advance.


Re: False memories?

csipromo
 

I remember seeing a lot of Ae 4/7 on the Zurich-Ziegelbruecke-Chur line. I don't remember seeing that many on the Gotthard line. There were Ae 3/5 or Ae 3/6 that were used for the auto trains through the tunnel, but AFAIR the majority of international trains were Ae 6/6, schnellzug from Zurich or Luzern to Chiasso/Locarno/Lugano were Re 4/4II. The push-pull trains from Luzern to Goschenen and from Airolo to Bellinzona were Re 4/4I with ABt. I recall having seen the Ae 4/6 at Bellinzona and maybe Lugano, but do not recall seeing them above Bellinzona in 1971-72. I don't recall seeing the Ae 8/14 in use other than the Landilok which was already at the Verkehrshaus, but there were photos (11801) in the 1968 and 1971 editions of "Die Gotthardbahn" (Marti & Trueb) (Orell Fussli Publishing).


By 1971, the Be 4/6 had already been moved to secondary lines.
What was the main area of operation and duties of the Ae 4/6?
Which locomotives were used for the auto trains?


Was it also common in the 1960s to find international trains pulled by Re 4/4I or Ae 4/7 between Basel and Luzern?


Regards


Mike C


Re: False memories?

Andy Micklethwaite
 

Many thanks for your thoughts. So the memories weren't necessarily false - good to know :-)
Andy.


Re: False memories?

Martin Baumann
 

Somewhat off topic perhaps but on 10.02.1990 11435 plus 15 RIC coaches and an EWI WR worked train 33312 Schaffhausen to Brig and 31354 return (596 tonnes, 420m not including loco). The maximum gradient is slightly higher than the Gotthard and 11435 worked without assistance throughout. (I travelled on these workings, they were ski holiday specials and full in both directions)


Re: False memories?

OL.Guerbetal
 

Hans Schneeberger writes in his book about SBB locomotives that the diagrams of Ae 4/7 didn't include any regular running South of G�schenen after 1965.

All international trains of those years that I recall always had a domestic part and if it was only the dining car, an AB Leichtstahl and perhaps a mail van being detached in Chiasso.

I do remember international trains that were too long for any station, even Z�rich HB around 1980. But there were parts of the trackwork filled with sleepers/ties or similar, so that the first cars were accessible. Well, at that time a platform hight of 0 cm above rails was still "normal".

Unlike the Re 4/4 II with its MU possibility, there was no reason to plan two Ae 6/6 for the same train.

And don't forget, the last Ae 6/6 was delivered in 1966, the first series of Re 4/4 II in 1967/68, 1969 the delivery of more Re 4/4 II started, 1971 the Re 4/4 III came and 1972 the first Re 6/6. It was a time of fundamental changes and I don't think 1970 at the Gotthard was the same as 1969!

Markus, G�rbetal


Re: False memories?

csipromo
 

By 1969, a train from Basel to Chiasso over the Gotthard would have been pulled by a Re 4/4II or Ae 6/6 from Basel to Luzern. From Luzern to Chiasso, traction would most likely have been an Ae 6/6. It was possible to find trains pulled by the older Ae 4/6, but most of those were regional trains on the south side. The use of dual Re 4/4IIs was not yet common, as the second series was only then going into service and there were not yet sufficient numbers in service.


An Ae 6/6 would have no problem pulling a 14 coach consist up the Gotthard.
For some of the longer trains, they could use a twin set of Ae 6/6 or in some circumstances, an Ae 6/6 paired with one of the Ae 8/14 locomotives was used.


For freight trains, the maximum weight and length could be pulled by using one Ae 6/6 a the lead, with two additional Ae 6/6 locomotives spaced out in the first half of the train.


I think that when I was in Switzerland in 1971/72, I only witnessed trains with Ae 4/6 on one or two occasions. It seemed to me at that point that they were already being used for regional trains in Ticino (Bellinzona-Luino?, Bellinzona-Chiasso, Bellinzona-Locarno). I remember seeing push-pull trains with Re 4/4I (Luzern-Goschenen/Airolo-Bellinzona), Re 4/4II with leichtstahl/EWI/EWII (Luzern-Chiasso/Zurich-Locarno/Zurich-Lugano).


The Ae 4/6 were likely partially used as reserve by then and were put into service when operations limited the number of Ae 6/6 that were available. As more and more Re 4/4II and then finally (1972-1975) the Re 6/6 came into service, the Ae 4/6 was relegated to lesser duties.


Reminder, this post is based on the recollections of a (then) 10 year old boy.


Regards


Mike C


Re: False memories?

csipromo
 

The longest trains that can be accommodated by most Swiss stations at that time was I believe around 14 UIC-X type coaches (26.4m each). At that time, there were still a number of shorter length coaches in use, so some trains could be longer. It was not uncommon to find trains made up of Italian, Belgian, French or mixed coaches with lengths from 22 to 25m each. Even the SBB lightsteel, EWI and EWII domestic coaches were shorter, allowing for longer trains. The station platforms at Milano Centrale were not that long and for that reason, many trains consisted of sections that were detached at Chiasso and only part of the consist went all the way to Milano. If I remember from my trip in 1971-72, there were a few longer trains that continued past Milano to Bologna, Firenze and Rome that were longer than the platform at Milano Centrale, but passengers for Milano were advised to take place in the first coaches.
I know that Luzern had two designated platforms (Tracks 8 and 9) where overly long Gotthard trains would stop, as I believe did Zurich HB.
The book "Die Gotthardbahn" by Marti and Trueb has some photos that show these long trains in the 1968, 1971 and 1971 editions (Orell Fussli Verlag).


Regards


Mike C


Re: False memories?

Martin Baumann
 

18 RIC or similar coaches would be 475m, not including the loco (s) which would be too long for most platforms even today.

18 Leichtstahl or EW1/EWII would be around 430m not including power which again would not fit in many platforms though Zürich HB can now handle trains this long

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