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Re: SBB Cargo Re6/6 locomotive colors

reissr@...
 

No, it is still there, but in "dark grey".

This loco (as many Re 6/6 and Re 4/4 II) needs an intensive cleaning


Re: SBB Cargo Re6/6 locomotive colors

csipromo
 

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:35 PM, John Lovda wrote:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/112648581@N02/50064782006/
It looks more to me like it got very dirty.
Bahnbilder.de has a number of photos of Re 6/6 (620) which have recently received revisions/repaints, complete with the Cargo markings:
https://www.bahnbilder.de/name/galerie/kategorie/schweiz~e-loks~re-66-sbb-re-620.html

The only exception AFAIK is the X-Rail locomotive, which received a modified livery compared to it's original.

Regards

Mike C


Re: Tram-Museum Zürich Mirages on line 21 on Sunday

Max Wyss
 

At the moment, while the Mirage set is used in regular operation on line 13, the vehicles are assigned to the Oerlikon Depot. 

Max.



SBB Cargo Re6/6 locomotive colors

John Lovda
 

I saw this photo on FLICKR today. Is the big word "Cargo" being removed from all Re6/6's?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/112648581@N02/50064782006/

John


Re: Tram-Museum Zürich Mirages on line 21 on Sunday

Guerbetaler
 

Am 01.07.2020 um 01:13 schrieb Chris Wood via groups.io:
A problem that will only become much worse in the future, as all the
various different flavours (four major variants?) of Tram 2000 are
retired with the introduction of the new Flexity trams. Again these
are almost always seen in MU.
The variety is wider. You will find three different types of electrical gear. then there are three basic tpyes, one of the by rebuild:
Be 4/6
Be 2/4 non-driving
Be 4/8 with low floor part ex Be 4/6

Of course, there are also a few non-driving Be 4/6, but as with the Mirage, I don't think they will preserve one of them. But perhaps a train of Be 4/6 + Be 2/4 would make sense.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: Tram-Museum Zürich Mirages on line 21 on Sunday

Andrew Moglestue
 

You are right. There was only one Mirage in the Burgwies and the other was kept in one of the regular depots. Wartau is a workshop and there is not sufficient space for storage. I know there was a Mirage in Oerlikon depot for a while, but it may also have been in other locations in the meantime.

In fact the Burgwies museum is already too small to display the entire collection. Maybe they could if they filled every bit of track, but the museum concept is to have space so people can walk around the vehicles. Also by changing the collection around a couple of times a year, people have a reason to make multiple visits, and the idea is that they can also do themed exhibitions and displays from time to time.

Furthernore, the Tram Museum has a source of secondary income in renting out the museum for corporate entertainment and the like. Obviously this wouldn't work if there wasn't space.

So the arrangement now is that the museum at Burgwies holds a selection of working and non working trams, with further working trams kept in various depots as space allows (this is one of the reasons that it is always so difficult to add to the collection, VBZ doesn't have much spare depot space). Several non working cars are stored off system in a secure location. There is also a sizeable store of parts salavaged from scrapped trams, including large and heavy parts such as controllers, motors, axles and even a complete chassis/truck or two. This collection fills a building the size of a small depot. The collection also includes several buses and trolleybuses, which are easier to move and store than trams, but still need space somehow. The tram museum recently had to dispose of some of its buses in a rather controversial decision that led to a lot of anger. Fortunately the buses could all find new homes. But with space at a premium, this sort of thing can happen and could happen again. The collection also used to include an electric shunting loco which was standard gauge and used to shunt on industrial street tracks. It was on display outside Wartau for many years. That has been transferred to a private colection. They also had one of the cars of the old Polybahn and that is also now with a new owner.

I don't know how many Tram 2000s will be preserved. With space at a premium, there will have to be some tough decisons and I think that many variations will not be represented.


Re: Tram-Museum Zürich Mirages on line 21 on Sunday

Bill Bolton
 

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 09:05:05 -0700, Chris Wood wrote:

Why would they want to preserve two identical trams?
Most likely because they want to be able to demonstrate multiple-unit
operation. It's a common need for museums that are associated with
systems which used multiple-unit control.


Re: Tram-Museum Zürich Mirages on line 21 on Sunday

Chris Wood
 

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 11:28 AM, Andrew Moglestue wrote:

But as a typical Mirage set is a double set, it makes sense to preserve two so
that a complete set can be shown.
Markus also makes the same point, which I hadn't considered, and it is a good one.

As far as I can remember, both Mirages passed into the museum collection at
the same time, which was when they were withdrawn from active service.
Interesting. My comments were based on several visits over the last decade to the museum at Burgwies‎, and I'm pretty sure that I would have noticed if there had been a second Mirage in there. And a quick look at my photos suggest that the one that was there was always 1675. So I guess 1674 could have been stored at Wartau (would it even fit?), or somewhere in the back of a working tram depot, or offsite somewhere.

Taken together those two points do raise an interesting further point. If the museum is indeed going to display them in multiple, they are either going to need more space, or to move some of their other equally interesting vehicles off site. A problem that will only become much worse in the future, as all the various different flavours (four major variants?) of Tram 2000 are retired with the introduction of the new Flexity trams. Again these are almost always seen in MU.

I guess it would be possible to expand the museum by taking over the section of the depot building currently used by Migros, but I suspect that could be expensive to achieve.


Re: Tram-Museum Zürich Mirages on line 21 on Sunday

Guerbetaler
 

Am 30.06.2020 um 19:31 schrieb Andrew Moglestue via groups.io:
I think one of the two cars is one of the sub-fleet which was
modified for pulling trailers (additional jumper cables and electric
and pneumatic connectors were provided for this on the rear end)
whereas the other unit is in unmodified condition.
Both have the jumpers, see here
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBZ_Be_4/6_(Mirage)#Betrieb>

photo 1674
<http://photo.tramscape.com/?pict=tram/zurich/190815.35&next=on&cat=series%3E19_08_15%3Ezh>

Another point is, that they have the ZST trainstop safety system to go through the tunnel to Schwammendingen. Only 1671-76 had both facilities: jumpers and ZST.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: Tram-Museum Zürich Mirages on line 21 on Sunday

Andrew Moglestue
 

As far as I can remember, both Mirages passed into the museum collection at the same time, which was when they were withdrawn from active service.

For a long time the Tram Museum were saying they would only be able to preserve a single car. The main restriction here is from VBZ who don't have very much spare space to store museum trams. This is why some of the inactive cars are actually stored off the system in a secure location.

But as a typical Mirage set is a double set, it makes sense to preserve two so that a complete set can be shown. I think one of the two cars is one of the sub-fleet which was modified for pulling trailers (additional jumper cables and electric and pneumatic connectors were provided for this on the rear end) whereas the other unit is in unmodified condition. I guess the Tram Museum somehow managed to convince VBZ to tolerate the preservation of two units.

Again speaking from memory, it was then intended to have one as a working unit and the other in storage off-system as a long term project or even as a spare. But again this proposal was short-lived. I guess VBZ are now very pleased that they didn't insist too hard.


Re: Tram-Museum Zürich Mirages on line 21 on Sunday

Guerbetaler
 

I can't answer your other questions but easily this one:

Am 30.06.2020 um 18:05 schrieb Chris Wood via groups.io:
Why would they want to preserve two identical trams?.
Because they were the first units in Zürich to be able to work in MU and this was in fact a very typical use of them. For many years lines 2, 7 and 13 were fully operated with MUs of this type. Don't forget that 36 cars of the 126 could only be used as second car in an MU. So, to represent real life of the "Mirages", you need an MU of them.

Markus, Gürbetal


Tram-Museum Zürich Mirages on line 21 on Sunday

Chris Wood
 

Tram-Museum Zürich have just updated their Facebook cover photograph to show "Our two Mirage trams on museum line 21, Sunday June 28., 2020" (or in the original "Unsere beiden Mirage-Trams auf der Museumslinie 21, am Sonntag, 28. Juni, 2020"). It is just possible to make out the number 1674 on the nearer of the two cars, and I am assuming the other is 1675. I know from other sources that 1674 and 1675 were the two trams put back into service last year to cover a rolling stock shortage, and I have seen 1675 in the museum and on route 21 prior to that on several occasions over the last decade or so.

But my questions relate to 1674. How long has that been part of the museum's collection, and where has it been since the Mirage's were last in public service, back in 2009 or thereabouts. Why would they want to preserve two identical trams?.


Re: 11135

Martin Baumann
 

Information received this morning:

The NVR is confirmed in error with 20-35 168 it is defonitely renumbered as X

20-35 603 withdrawn 01.05.2020

18-35 031 withdrawn 19.05.2020


Re: 11135

Martin Baumann
 

82-33 985 and 992 were both scrapped at Kaiseraugst in April 2019 though not officially withdrawn until 14.08.2019

82-34 900 went to Kaiseragust last month

EWI total differs because 18-35 031 has not been reported withdrawn but removed from NVR

I got the figures for AB EW I and EW II the wrong way round

30-35 603 has been removed from NVR but not reported withdrawn

20-35 168 became X 60 85 99-35 168-1 in 2016

20-35 213 went to Kaiseraugst last month

20-35 602 officially withdrawn 19.02.2020

My 20-35 total was wrong though it should be 25 plus the out of service 6xx

Also non KLB EW II B 50 85 20-34 588-7 is still officially in stock but nobody knows where it is (if it still exists) and it is certainly not running


Re: 11135

Guerbetaler
 

Martin, can you tell me the difference? These numbers are in NVR:

5 BDt EW II 919, 921, 923, 925, 928
925 has been in use with SBBI

10 (Martin: 7) BDt EW I (ex B/Dt)
981, 983, 984, 985, 986, 989, 990, 992, 900, 905

17 (Martin: 18) A EW I
003, 012, 015, 017, 018, 019, 023, 026, 028, 030,
034 ,036, 037, 039, 040, 042, 045

2 (Martin: 5) AB EW II 008, 116

4 (Martin: 2) AB EW I 600, 603, 604, 606

33 (Martin: 25) B EW I
075, 102, 143, 156, 163, 168, 203, 213, 223, 226,
232, 262, 265, 267, 274, 290, 299, 300, 302, 305,
313, 316, 317, 332, 334, 341, 343, 344, 600, 602,
604, 606, 607

Markus


Re: 11135

Martin Baumann
 

I make it

5 BDt EW II
7 BDt EW I (ex B/Dt)
18 A EW I
5 AB EW II still in stock but all permanently out of service
2 AB EW I
25 B EW I 5 of which are permanently out of service


Re: 11135

Guerbetaler
 

Am 19.06.2020 um 16:05 schrieb csipromo via groups.io:
Was this a typical Ersatzpendel with EWI NPZ (not EWII) coaches (other than possibly a EWII BDt)?
None of the not-klB/NPZ EW I/II are left in service.

Of the klB-/NPZ refurbished ones the following numbers are left (SBB):

5 BDt EW II
10 BDt EW I (ex B/Dt)
17 A EW I
2 AB EW II
4 AB EW I
33 B EW I

Not sure, if all of them are really still in service.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: 11135

csipromo
 

Was this a typical Ersatzpendel with EWI NPZ (not EWII) coaches (other than possibly a EWII BDt)?

Regards

Mike C


BLS 465s

davey
 

002 009 010 on the La Chaux de Fonds circuit today


11135

Martin Baumann
 

11135 plus EWI/EWII pushpull worked 2071 12:37 Basel SBB-Zürich Flughafen today as rubbish 502 009 failed at Basel SBB

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