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Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

gordonwis
 

On Tuesday, 4 August 2020, 14:43:53 BST, Andrew Moglestue via groups.io <amogles=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I wonder how they define photography for private use. Many railway photographers these days share their photos on playces like Flickr, Facebook or DeviantArt, or have their own private photo sites.
Would that still be private use, or could you get into trouble with SBB over that?

Sharing photos you have taken as a private individual is still essentially private use. The rule (as I think has already been mentioned by Marcus) is to prevent huge loads of film-crew level paraphernalia being set up adjacent to the railway

And 'sharing' is hardly a new phenomenon. Any photo taken by a private individual and then published, say in Eisenbahn Amateur in 1975, is still 'sharing'.


Re: Question about history of RBe + Bt sets

csipromo
 

ABt 38-33 900-921were originally designed to be operated by Re 4/4I and BDe 4/4.
They were rebuilt to allow for operation with RBe 4/4 (540) and Re 4/4II (420) in the 1990s, at which point they were converted into BDt with flush sliding doors, as per Markus' post above.

Here's a question. When were the final operations of Re 4/4I push-pull on the Gotthard line?

Regards

Mike C


Re: Question about history of RBe + Bt sets

Guerbetaler
 

Am 04.08.2020 um 21:55 schrieb Martin Baumann:
Were 50 85 38-33 900 to 921 for BDe 4/4 or RBe 4/4? I don't have this recorded.
They had Vst IIIa+b so they could be used with Re 4/4 I or BDe 4/4. Same for the later rebuilt ABt 930-937 ex-AB. But light steel ABt 1701-20 = 37-33 900-919 only had IIIb for BDe 4/4 and BDt/Dt/DZt 1990-95, later 82-33 900, 92-33 900-902 and 91-33 900-901 only had IIIa for Re 4/4 I

38-33 900-921 were rebuilt 1993-96 to BDt 82-33 960-980 with Vst IIId for RBe and Re 4/4 II.

Markus


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

gordonwis
 

On Monday, 3 August 2020, 23:10:37 BST, DAVID STEVENSON via groups.io <bodensee.toggenburg=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
There is a law in Germany which prohibits the taking of a photo of someone at work. It is rarely applied and i have only once experienced a difficulty
The same applies in France. Again, seldom used but I have heard of it happening to people.


Re: Question about history of RBe + BDt sets

Guerbetaler
 

Mixed operation in any state of modernization was always possible, except, if I'm not mistaken, around 1964 (RBe 1401-06 and DZt 1901-06).

Very early in S-Bahn-operation, blue and white vehicles turned up. In general, last to be modernized were the BDt. The Dt were always green (but had gotten red fronts).

Electrical and internal modernization was combined with new paint. But the new doors were a single later amendment without other modernizations.

S-Bahn Zürich used four car sets and six car sets for regular lines and sets with two RBe as "Dispozug". These were trainsets ready in Zürich to replace trains that were late or had a defect. So the double RBe sets could be seen on all lines and they were on occasions also sent to replace an IC.

Double RBe sets had been used earlier to replace RABe 12/12.

Shunter's steps were only available on coaches with diaphragms. On the light steel coaches they remained to the end.

Exterior handrails were removed around 1996 within a short time on all SBB, SOB and BLS coaches, independent from their use with or without conductor. (EA 8/1996)

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: Question about history of RBe + Bt sets

Martin Baumann
 

A related question, probably for Markus:

Were 50 85 38-33 900 to 921 for BDe 4/4 or RBe 4/4? I don't have this recorded.


Re: Question about history of RBe + Bt sets

Martin Baumann
 

An RBe at each end could be seen before 2000 For example on the S-Bahn Zürich in the early years before 450 000 to 450 049 had all been delivered. On 01.07.1990 I had 1457 and 1453 on each end of S12 19277 Brugg-Winterthur Seen. Another I had at the time was 06.06.1990 S9 18965 Zug-Uster which was two 6 car RBe sets coupled together. Driving Trailer leading, 1407 in the middle, 1453 at the end


Re: Question about history of RBe + Bt sets

csipromo
 

The RBe 4/4 were originally lettered SBB CFF/SBB FFS without the Swiss crest.
At some point in the 1980s, a number of these railcars were adorned with the new SBB logo (Pleitegeier) <+> SBB CFF FFS
At some point, probably around 1990, a number of these railcars had the ends painted red.
Around the same time, a small number of these railcars had one end painted in a special orange/yellow livery for use on the Seetal Line (Luzern - Lenzburg)
In the mid-1990s, a number of these railcars were repainted in the Regio (NPZ) livery. A few years later, the railcars were modified again as the original doors were replaced by flush swing doors, as were the carriages.
Around 2000, it became common to see push-pull trains with a RBe 4/4 (540) at either end of the consist, rather than a single motor unit with a pilot coach.
This freed up a number of pilot coaches for use with Re 4/4II in Regio and Interregio consists.

Regards

Mike C


Re: Question about history of RBe + Bt sets

Martin Baumann
 

RBe overhauled between 1990 and 1992 were repainted in blue and white but retained the original doors for several years afterwards, for example 540 049 ex 1451 R4 26.10.1992 but only received the new doors 07.03.1997

(I have dates for all RBe if this is of interest)

RBe with old and new doors could certainly work together, for example 13.01.1995 S3-18364 Effretikon-Dietikon had 1440 blue and white old doors and 540 009 blue and white and new doors working together


Etzwillen-Singen museum line

Martin Baumann
 

Reilasingen to Singen will re-open to passengers on August 16th

http://www.zrt.ch/uploads/media/ZRT_Dampf_Etzwilen-Singen.pdf


Question about history of RBe + Bt sets

Andrew Moglestue
 

Question here about the history of RBe push-pull sets for the purposes of correct formations on a model railway.

This isn't very long ago, but memory can play tricks.

From memory, when the S-Bahn Zürich first opened, many lines used RBe uniots coupled to two EWI or EWII plus a BDt. These four car sets could be combined into longer 8 or 12 car sets.
At the time they were still in green livery, using the Swiss shield rather than the SBB logo.

Then as conductors were phased out, some modifications were made, including the removal of exterior grabrails and shunter's steps so passengers couldn't jump up onto a moving train. Is this correct?

Later a program got underway to modernize these trains. Folding doors were replaced by swing doors and at the same time the green livery was replaced by the NPZ style blue and white with yellow doors and the interiors also modernized with the imitation red or green leather seat covers replaced by moquette in 2nd class, and the luggage racks over the seats replaced by luggagte racks over the windows. Changes in first class were more subtle, it mostly it just being the seat moquettes that got changed. Some of the toilets were removed and repalced by bicycle areas.

Now my second question is about the transition period here. I seem to remember that modernized and unmodernized vehicles would run mixed within the same trains. So you might get, say, a green RBe and then a blue/white B and then a green A and then a green BDt, or something like that all in the same 4-car set. Is that correct? Does this mean the door controls were compatible between unmodernized and modernized units?


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

Andrew Moglestue
 

I wonder how they define photography for private use. Many railway photographers these days share their photos on playces like Flickr, Facebook or DeviantArt, or have their own private photo sites.
Would that still be private use, or could you get into trouble with SBB over that?

Concerning the situation in Germany, I had a similar situation of my own, not actually on railway property but photographing trams in Freiburg about 5 years ago. I was approached by a security guard who claimed he was on one of my photos (I hadn't even noticed him before) and demanded I delete all my photos. When asked why, he said he didn't want people to recognize where he worked and said something about tram photographers always sharing pictures with nazis and the mafia. He sounded a bit mentally deranged to me. He called the police, actually telling them he had apprehended a shoplifer. The policemen inspected my photos and confirned that he wasn't actually on any of them.

I later wrote to the security company whose name was on his jacket but never got a response. So I guess they don't take misbehaviour by their staff very seriously.

But this is one random incident in about 30 years of photographs, so I chalked it up to an imbecilic individual.


Re: Serious accident on MGB

Martin Baumann
 

Schweizer Eisenbahn Revue reports that the accident was caused by the Autozug passing a signal at danger. its composition was 105 plus Skl-v 4802 4822 4820 4821 4825 4826 4806 4801 and BDt 4363


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

Theo van Riet
 

Op 3 aug. 2020, om 23:56 heeft DAVID STEVENSON via groups.io <bodensee.toggenburg=me.com@groups.io> het volgende geschreven:

I do speak German and understood what he was saying. I did check it out and it was true though I had never heard of it. Perhaps the train driver was German?
A friend of mine had the same experience with a ”nervous” train driver in Frankfurt Hbf….
But once in 20 years is bearable..


Theo


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

Mick Sasse
 

Or perhaps the train driver was bonkers...

;-)


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

DAVID STEVENSON
 

There is a law in Germany which prohibits the taking of a photo of someone at work. It is rarely applied and i have only once experienced a difficulty when a bus driver at Aachen went absolutely bonkers at me shouting and screaming and then drove his bus at me. Quite a lot of his passengers got off at this point. I told him I didn’t speak German and had no idea what he was on about. He didn’t speak any English so that was that. I do speak German and understood what he was saying. I did check it out and it was true though I had never heard of it. Perhaps the train driver was German?

Dave S


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

glenn allen
 

from: Andrew Moglestue via groups.io
Sent: 03 August 2020 16:29
To: SwissRail@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SwissRail] Issues with railway photography in CH?

My possibly misinformed understanding Is that on SBB property at Zurich HB you do indeed need an official permit for commercial or professional photography . I am not sure how professional is defined . So I guess there is possibly some grey area .

➢ I found this on a post from ten years ago.
➢ I received the following response from a representative of the Media Relations team. (Highlighting mine.)
➢ You do not require a permit to take photographs for private use in [these] stations. Hereby the special conditions from one of our photographers’ permits.
Please note the following conditions:
– You may only photograph in publically accessible areas.
– The usual operation of the railway may not be disturbed.
– Crossing the tracks and remaining in the area of the tracks is forbidden.
– You must follow the instructions of station and train personal as well as Securitrans railway police.
– SBB disavows itself of any responsibility for any accident which results from the non-observance of these instructions.


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

Guerbetaler
 

Am 03.08.2020 um 17:08 schrieb Andrew Moglestue via groups.io:
My possibly misinformed understanding Is that on SBB property at
Zurich HB you do indeed need an official permit for commercial or
professional photography. I am not sure how professional is defined.
See also the contribution of Martin Baumann on the subject.

The idea of the rule is simply to prevent railway stations from becoming film studios, because this could hinder railway operations and passenger flows and finally be dangerous.

So, if you want to film a scene for a movie or make shootings with models for any fashion label, you need a permission. If I'm not mistaken, an SBB person will then be available to survey and help if necessary. Of course, this isn't free...

But all that is far away from any restriction to take photos as a passenger, who waits two or three hours for a train :-)

There had once been an incident with a rail guard who thought that any photography in a railway station would need a permission. We then had contacts with SBB officials and they clearly said that this isn't the case.

Markus


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

Martin Baumann
 

"Foto- und Filmaufnahmen, die ausschliesslich privaten Zwecken oder der journalistisch-redaktionellen, nicht-kommerziellen Tätigkeiten dienen, sind zulässig, sofern sie nicht bewilligungspflichtig sind."

https://company.sbb.ch/de/ueber-die-sbb/profil/sbb-markenportal/kommunikation/foto/film-fotoaufnahmen.html

This page is not available in English. It says that photographing and videoing exclusively for private purposes or for non commercial news journalism are permitted when a permit is not needed. It goes on to list what you need a permit for such as large equipment, big groups, closing off areas etc.


Re: Issues with railway photography in CH?

Gary Klouda
 


Seven years ago on a local going to Berne, as we were coming into a small station I was videotaping out the window with my camcorder. A person who turned out to be a plainclothes policeman came storming into the train and wanted to rip my head off. The guard (conductor) happened to be standing right next to me, defended me, and called some of the policeman's mates to calm him down. I was a bit shaken. That was the only incident I've ever had in seven trips to Switzerland.  - Gary

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