Date   

BLS merger?

giger.baumann@...
 

The second railway company of the country, the BLS is target of a takeover by SBB, fully owned by the confederation. SBB wants to buy stock from the canton of Berne, who holds a majority in BLS. Government of the canton of Valais fear a setting behind of the L�tschberg-route, SBB preferring the Gotthard-route. Apart from this, BLS has enogh locomotives to be a true competitor in freight transit. What do you think about SBB plans?
Markus Giger


BLS merger?

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

[second revised posting]

The second railway company of the country, the BLS is target of a takeover by
SBB, fully owned by the confederation. SBB wants to buy stock from the canton of
Berne, who holds a majority in BLS. Government of the canton of Valais fear a
setting behind of the L�tschberg-route, SBB preferring the Gotthard-route. Apart
from this, BLS has enogh locomotives to be a true competitor in freight transit.
What do you think about SBB plans?

Newspaper "Der Bund" reported, that BLS stock was up by 66%. Speculation?

Markus Giger


SBB engines HO Roco 4 sale.

JME Jack Hankey <jack@...>
 

I have for sale:
two SBB 2-10-0 Elephants, still in box.
one SBB AE 6/6 electric, with power from overheads or tracks. Still
in box.
Please contact: jack@otvcableLAN.net
thanks.


Welcome

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Hello,
Welcome to the SwissRail list. I just returned from winter holidays, so
please allow me a few words.

Our list is still new, so only few messges come in. If you
do not know to tell interesting things about Rail in Switzerland,
just ask in what you are interested. I will try to give you
the answer and hopefully later there will be other list members
to answer qustions.

Onelist is going together with eGroups.com. This will result in a few changes.
But it is said, that the Onelist-adresses will continue. As further informations
are available, you will learn more.
Thanks,
Markus Giger


Bodensee-Toggenburg Bahn

Keith Ballinger <kballinger@...>
 

Does anyone know why RIGHT-hand running is used through Herisau station
instead of the normal Swiss LEFT-hand? This is consistent with all trains,
regardless of track occupancy.

Also, does anyone know of a source of track-plans for Bodensee-Toggenburg
stations - especially Herisau, Ebnat-Kappel, and Nesslau-Neu St. Johann?


Regards,
Keith Ballinger
NEPEAN, Ontario, CANADA

E-mail: kballinger@idirect.com


Re: Bodensee-Toggenburg Bahn

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Keith Ballinger asked:
Does anyone know why RIGHT-hand running is used through Herisau station
instead of the normal Swiss LEFT-hand? This is consistent with all trains,
regardless of track occupancy.
Also, does anyone know of a source of track-plans for Bodensee-Toggenburg
stations - especially Herisau, Ebnat-Kappel, and Nesslau-Neu St. Johann?
The reason for right-hand running is quite simple:
Main traffic direction out of Herisau is towards St. Gallen. As BT wants to
offer a good service, the idea was, that the majority of departing
passengers can board the train on track 1, which is accessible directly from
the road as well as the station building (American: "depot"). In the
direction of St. Gallen, track 1 in Herisau is on the right hand. Trains to
Degersheim - Wattwil leave from track 3, track 2 is only used for arriving
trains and special trains as the famous steam-train "Amor-Express". This use
of tracks has been the same since 1976, when the subways were built.
I have hand-drawn track layouts of Herisau, Ebnat-Kappel and Nesslau-Neu St.
Joahnn and some other stations of about 1980, when I lived in that region.
They are not to scale. Would it help you? Please contact me off-list.
Markus Giger


Swiss Companies in the free market

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

On January 1st, 1999 open access to the Swiss rail network was introduced. For the German network this was done even earlier. But until now, a Swiss company can not go to Germany and a German company can not come to Switzerland. Except...
 
Mittelthurgaubahn (MThB) founded a German firm called "Mittelthurgaubahn Deutschland GmbH" and thus became a German railway company. No problem now to run on either side of the Rhine.
 
BLS Lötschbergbahn signed an agreement with DB and did not feel it was necessary to do it alike. Not much of this cooperation with DB is visible until now. But within Switzerland, BLS competes with SBB on the freight market. It was said, that form mid-february BLS would run its own freight trains on the Gotthard line.
 
On the other hand, BLS also cooperates with SBB for Post-transports and for a new piggy-back-relation Freiburg i.Br. (D) - Lötschberg - Novara (I). And in the passenger sector, the old type of cooperation continues. This means, a BLS passenger train in Basel is - in legal terms - an SBB train.
 
SBB itself found its way to Germany. As SBB can not go there on its own, a cooperation with BASF started. Now engineers from SBB drive the new BASF Electrics (145 CL 001 and 002) from Basel to Ludwigshafen. SBB said, they wanted to fit some of their own locomotives to run over German rails, fitting Indusi, LZB, radio and an adapted pantograph.
 
Looking south, SBB just signed a joint-venture agreement with FS to build up Cargo Svizzera - Italiana (CSI), an Italian firm. If you change two letters you get CIS, the initials (reporting marks) for Cisalpino (owner of 9 Pendolino ETR 470 tilting trains), a Swiss firm on which FS holds 50% and SBB together with BLS and some cantons 50%.
 
Markus Giger


BLS trains on the Gotthard

Giger Markus BAV <Markus.Giger@...>
 

According to todays "Bund" newspaper, it was early in the morning of
Thursday that the first freight train with BLS locomotive arrived in
Chiasso. The train consisted of Re 4/4 189 and only nine waggons. It starts
in Kaijfok near Rotterdam and ends in Milano-Smistamento. Loading capacity
of the train is sold by a dutch firm, traction is done by DB, BLS and FS.
The train will return on Saturday. Weekly running is planned for now,
additional trains only being added when transport volume will grow.
Markus Giger


Re: SBB engines HO Roco 4 sale.

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Jack Hankey" wrote:

I have for sale:
two SBB 2-10-0 Elephants, still in box.
one SBB AE 6/6 electric, with power from overheads or tracks.
Still in box.
Please contact: jack@otvcableLAN.net
thanks.
Well, allow me the following explanations:
Outside Amerika, nobody would easily understand, what a "2-10-0 Elephant"
is. I counted and found out, that it must be a C 5/6, or more generally, a
1'E. The "Elephant" helped as well, as this is the nickname of the C 5/6.
The old Swiss system is simple: count the driver AXLES, then count all
AXLES.
The designation Ae 6/6 is of the same sort. But it does not show, whether it
is an F-coupled or a C'C' locomotive. Small letter e indicates electric, m
indicates motor (diesel or gazoline). A, B, C, D and R stand for different
speed limits. E is a tender steam locomotive or a shunter. G stands for
narrow gauge and H for cogwheel. Two special things:
- Tender locomotives have the speed limit indicated with small letters, e.g.
Eb 3/5
- Motor coaches carry A, B, C for 1st class, 2nd class or (ancient) 3rd
class, D (untill 1966 = F) for baggage. If they can run on cog lines, they
have a small "h".

Markus Giger


Re: Swiss Companies in the free market

Keith Ballinger <kballinger@...>
 

I have heard rumours of some merger between the MThB, SOB, and BT. Is there any truth to this? Also, I believe that the MThB now runs regularly on BT tracks - which route is this on?

Regards,
Keith Ballinger
NEPEAN, Ontario, CANADA

E-mail: kballinger@...

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Giger-Baumann [mailto:giger.baumann@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 4:55 PM
To: SwissRail
Subject: [SwissRail] Swiss Companies in the free market

From: "Giger-Baumann"

On January 1st, 1999 open access to the Swiss rail network was introduced. For the German network this was done even earlier. But until now, a Swiss company can not go to Germany and a German company can not come to Switzerland. Except...
 
Mittelthurgaubahn (MThB) founded a German firm called "Mittelthurgaubahn Deutschland GmbH" and thus became a German railway company. No problem now to run on either side of the Rhine.
 
BLS Lötschbergbahn signed an agreement with DB and did not feel it was necessary to do it alike. Not much of this cooperation with DB is visible until now. But within Switzerland, BLS competes with SBB on the freight market. It was said, that form mid-february BLS would run its own freight trains on the Gotthard line.
 
On the other hand, BLS also cooperates with SBB for Post-transports and for a new piggy-back-relation Freiburg i.Br. (D) - Lötschberg - Novara (I). And in the passenger sector, the old type of cooperation continues. This means, a BLS passenger train in Basel is - in legal terms - an SBB train.
 
SBB itself found its way to Germany. As SBB can not go there on its own, a cooperation with BASF started. Now engineers from SBB drive the new BASF Electrics (145 CL 001 and 002) from Basel to Ludwigshafen. SBB said, they wanted to fit some of their own locomotives to run over German rails, fitting Indusi, LZB, radio and an adapted pantograph.
 
Looking south, SBB just signed a joint-venture agreement with FS to build up Cargo Svizzera - Italiana (CSI), an Italian firm. If you change two letters you get CIS, the initials (reporting marks) for Cisalpino (owner of 9 Pendolino ETR 470 tilting trains), a Swiss firm on which FS holds 50% and SBB together with BLS and some cantons 50%.
 
Markus Giger


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Re: Swiss Companies in the free market

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

A little administrative thing: Please do not repeat the whole message you are answering on or asking on. Just take the important part and delete the rest. Otherwise we would have each message twice or even more times in the archive.  http://www.onelist.com/messages/SwissRail
 
Keith Ballinger asked:
I have heard rumours of some merger between the MThB, SOB, and BT. Is there any truth to this? Also, I believe that the MThB now runs regularly on BT tracks - which route is this on?
 
It is not yet time for mergers. But changes will eventually take place. Before, the Confederation and the cantons will have to define their position as owners (together they mostly keep around 90% of stock, this is true for MThB, SOB and BT). In the discussion about BLS, it was said, that the Confederation is not willing to procure risk capital for freight and passenger transport. On the other hand, the Confederation paid most of the investments made on BLS in the past 30 years or so. Thus, BLS infrastructure (assets, not day-to-day operations) should be brought into a separate corporation. There could be a similar solution proposed for MThB, SOB and BT. Answers are not to be given before next year.
 
New MThB "GTW 2/6" (ABe 2/6) trains for the "Seelinie" are on contractual basis maintained in Herisau by BT. As most MThB rolling stock is fitted with german pantographs, they must not go further than Herisau, clearance in tunnels not being sufficient. The MThB trains run through from Schaffhausen - Kreuzlingen to St. Gallen - Herisau, BT push-pull-compositions doing the same in the other direction. So it is a cooperation, each railway company keeping its responsability as it was before. But passengers do not have to change in Romanshorn, where MThB and BT meet.  http://www.bt-bahn.ch/geografie.html
 
Markus Giger


Re: Swiss Companies in the free market

Keith Ballinger <kballinger@...>
 

 Snip...... 
 
New MThB "GTW 2/6" (ABe 2/6) trains for the "Seelinie" are on contractual basis maintained in Herisau by BT. As most MThB rolling stock is fitted with german pantographs, they must not go further than Herisau, clearance in tunnels not being sufficient. The MThB trains run through from Schaffhausen - Kreuzlingen to St. Gallen - Herisau, BT push-pull-compositions doing the same in the other direction. So it is a cooperation, each railway company keeping its responsability as it was before. But passengers do not have to change in Romanshorn, where MThB and BT meet.  http://www.bt-bahn.ch/geografie.html 
 
Unsnip.........
 
I thought the GTW 2/6 on "Seelinie" was the Stadler diesel unit. I remember one being in St. Gallen for the celebrations in 1997. Is there an electric version running to Herisau? Do the RBDe 4/4's from MThB run on this service too - or do you know where they run? (I assume this is a relatively recent change in the service since I do not recall seing MThB units in Herisau when I was there 1996-7.)
 
(Sorry about not deleting the duplicate text in the previous message - my oversight!)
 

Regards,
Keith Ballinger
NEPEAN, Ontario, CANADA

E-mail: kballinger@...


Re: Swiss Companies in the free market

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Keith asked:
I thought the GTW 2/6 on "Seelinie" was the Stadler diesel unit. I remember one being in St. Gallen for the celebrations in 1997. Is there an electric version running to Herisau? Do the RBDe 4/4's from MThB run on this service too - or do you know where they run? (I assume this is a relatively recent change in the service since I do not recall seing MThB units in Herisau when I was there 1996-7.)
 
For use on the formerly SBB-operated "Seelinie" MThB bought in 1998/99 10 electric GTW 2/6 RABe 2/6 526 680 - 689 together with 4 driving trailers 29-35 221 - 224.
 
The 3 diesel GTW 2/6 Bm 2/6 596 571 - 573 of 1996/97 are used on the non-electrified german "Seehäsle" line Radolfzell - Stockach which was reopened to passenger traffic with the help of regional subsidies.
 
The 4 RBDe 4/4 566 631 - 634 of 1994 (identical with SBB 560) run, together with the 6 ABDe 536 611 - 616 of 1965/66, the "Seehas" Weinfelden - Konstanz - Singen - Engen. Between Konstanz and Engen this is a DB-service, MThB running on a contractual basis.
 
GTW 2/6 exist in a nearly unbelievable variety (delivered or under construction):
 
Country, number built/to be built, railway company, numbers if known, (year of delivery), gauge, other remarks
Diesel units (all German units are standard gauge):
Germany   3 MThB 596 571-573 (1996/97) Radolfzell - Stockach
Germany 14 UBB Usedomer Bäderbahn
Germany 30 DB  646 001-030, for Brandenburg
Germany 12 DB  646 ..., for Magdeburg
Germany   3 HLB VT  101-103  (1998, without 1st class, with toilets)
Germany 12 HLB VT  104-115 (1999, without 1st class nor toilets)
Germany  3 HLB 508 116-118 (1999, with 1st class and toilets)
Germany 12 HLB VT  119-130 (1999...) Hessische Landesbahn
Greece 17 OSE 1000mm narrow gauge
Greece 12 OSE 1435mm
USA 20 NJT Trenton - Camden 1435mm
 
Electric units:
Switzerland 10 MThB 526 680-689 (1998/99) 1435mm 15kV 16.7Hz a.c.
Austria 8 StH/LILO 22.151-158 (2000) 1435mm 800V d.c. (and 15kV 16.7Hz a.c. for 22.151)
Switzerland 7 ASM (ex BTI) Be 2/6 501-507 (1997) 1000mm 1200V d.c., 1 additional traction unit 5080
Switzerland 3 CEV Be 2/6 7001-7004 (1997/98) 1000mm 850V d.c., also in use on MOB
Cesko 14 ZSR 425 96.. (2000...) 1000mm 1500V d.c., Tatra railway
Switzerland 4 CJ ... 1000mm 1500V d.c., Chemin de fer du Jura
Switzerland 2 YSC ... 1000mm 15kV 16.7Hz a.c., Yverdon - Ste-Croix
 
So there are for each standard and narrow gauge: diesel, a.c. and d.c. trains.
 
Markus Giger


[Fwd: Antw: Engadin Star]

John Fleck <johntgv@...>
 

Attached are the schedules for the RhB's new Engadine Star May 28 to
October 15, 2000.

John Fleck


Statistics

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Some Statistic about the Swiss Rail network:
3658km standard gauge 1435mm, of which 2908km SBB
   2km narrow gauge 1200mm (Rheineck - Walzenhausen)
1561km meter gauge 1000mm, of which 74km SBB (Brünig: Luzern - Interlaken Ost)
  57km narrow gauge 800mm (cogwheel)
  13km narrow gauge 750mm (Waldenburgerbahn: Liestal - Waldenburg)
rack or cogwheel sections 9% to 25% (Pilatusbahn 48%) on all gauges except for 750mm. Tramways (about 172km) are mostly meter gauge, few standard gauge. The network comprises less than 20km of non-electrified lines.
 
There is one little train with 600mm gauge that offers public transport (TTE Trains Touristiques de l'Emosson) but its infrastructure is exempt from federal rail regulation.
 
Markus Giger
 


Statistics (2)

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

In November 1999 22km of new line, mainly in Tunnel was added to the network (RhB Vereina), bringing the total in meter gauge to 1583km.
 
Markus Giger


Orient Express to be sold

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

There are messages telling that Reisebüro Mittelthurgau (RMT) would like to sell their rail equipment, as it was nearly impsooible to fully cover costs of operation and maintenance. The five ex-Rheingold dome cars were sold to Sweden together with some newer sleeping cars. They will all return to regular service. For the ancient CIWLT Orient Express cars no buyer is known but RMT said they were willing to sell as soon as a good offer would come in. Also the famous "Churchill"-arrow (red arrow) from 1939 would be sold if a buyer turned up.
 
RMT also was involved in the American Orient Express, for details see "Trains" magazine of February.
 
Markus Giger


NINA, new order to be placed

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

As newspapers told, BLS will order 6 more NINA (Niederflur-Nahverkehrszüge = low floor short distance trains) to be added to the existing 8 ABe 4/8 525 001-008. It was said that thougts were made to include toilets as the working range of these trains was widened (against first plannings) with their use on "S-Bahn Bern" (they now usually run S5 Bern - Neuchâtel, S51Bern - Bümpliz Nord/Rosshäusern, S55 Bern - Murten and on weekends and in the evening S2 Schwarzenburg - Bern - Langnau). The 6 trainsets would replace the remaining two-car ABDe 4/8 751-54 and the Be 4/4 761-62.
BLS tries to place its order together with MO (Martigny - Orsières), which wants to buy 2 shortened trains (Be 4/6), and perhaps other railway companies. Nothing was said whether fianancement for the trainsets was secured.
 
BLS rolling stock including NINA
 
explanations on NINA in german:
 
Markus Giger


Governemental Money for Railways

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

From our member John Fleck I got this message:
 
I'm sending this to you to show how differently our Canadian Government
treats our passenger train service compared to your wonderful SBB!!

If you would like to publish this to the SwissRail Members, please feel
free to do so!

A billion for AMTRAK, how much for VIA Rail?: Transport 2000 asks
    
    TORONTO, March 20 /CNW/ - TRANSPORT 2000 CANADA is calling on Industry
Minister John Manley and Transport Minister David Collenette to reconcile
the federal government's loans totalling a billion dollars to AMTRAK, the US
passenger railway, with its treatment of VIA Rail which is not allowed to
borrow money to upgrade its outdated trains, tracks and signal system.
    In a letter to the two Ministers Transport 2000 President Harry Gow
notes: "The billion dollars sent south of the border could have been loaned
to VIA Rail to purchase new rolling stock, renovate track and crossings,
eliminate all dark areas, and to collaborate with CP and CN to upgrade all
facilities used by VIA across the country."
    "Please advise at the earliest opportunity as to your plans to reinvest
in VIA Rail Canada," Gow asks.
 
This gives me the opportunity to explain in a few words, how the Swiss rail system is financed:
 
Almost all investments in rail infrastructure (physical plant) are financed by the Confederation and the Cantons with loans without interest. (Cantons do not have to contribute to main lines.) Trains using the infrastructure (even the own trains of a company) pay a predetermined price depending on distance, load an earnings. This price covers about one third of infrastructure costs. The rest again comes from Confederation and Cantons as subsidy. This subsidy is fixed in adavance.
 
In the same way, Confederation and Cantons subsidize Regional trains (including RX = RegioExpress) for their planned non-covered costs.
 
No direct subsidies are paid for long-distance trains (IC = InterCity, IR = InterRegio, EC = EuroCity etc.) of SBB and BLS. Of course these companies are free to borrow money for rolling stock investments.
 
There is no subsidy for freight trains with two exceptions:
- narrow gauge freight is subsidized
- combined traffic can get subsidies (TOFC, Container, accompanied piggyback)
 
All these subsidies total about 3 billion CHF annually.
 
Markus Giger


GTW 2/6

Giger-Baumann <giger.baumann@...>
 

Regionalverkehr Mittelland (RM) is expected to order 8 GTW 2/6 in the near future. They would be standard gauge and 15000V 16.7Hz as those of MThB.
 
Markus Giger

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