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Re: SBB Cargo Changes

Guerbetaler
 

Am 07.09.2019 um 21:29 schrieb John Beaulieu:
So these locomotives have the ability to convert variable frequency
AC as generated by the traction motors to 16.7 Hz AC to be fed back
into the contact line? Otherwise they would be limited to one speed
in regenerative braking as the AC frequency generated by the motors
would depend on their rotational speed and the number of poles.
Aren't you thinking of three-phase motors?

Already the Crocodiles Ce 6/8" (1920-22) came with a regenerative brake which was designed by Behn-Eschenburg. I can't explain you in detail how it works. But basically you need an excitation with 16.7 Hz from the transformer/overhead line.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: SBB Cargo Changes

John Beaulieu
 

Re 420/421/430 have been equipped with regenerative braking from
delivery. This is an important difference to BLS Re 425, which are
equipped with dc traction motors versus ac single phase motors on the
SBB locomotives.

So these locomotives have the ability to convert variable frequency AC as generated by the traction motors to 16.7 Hz AC to be fed back into the contact line? Otherwise they would be limited to one speed in regenerative braking as the AC frequency generated by the motors would depend on their rotational speed and the number of poles.

John Beaulieu


Re: Zentralbahn spur and tunnel near Sarnen

Guerbetaler
 

Am 06.09.2019 um 18:12 schrieb Jonathan Marten:
Today there is no overhead wire and part of the rails seem to have been filled up with some sort of tar compound.
<https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en&topic=ech&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo.pixelkarte-farbe&E=2662487&N=1195597&zoom=11&crosshair=marker>

Am 07.09.2019 um 09:30 schrieb Barry Emmott via Groups.Io:
You’ll find something similar to the north of the line near
Brienzwiler.
... which is now completely gone, but can be found on older maps:

<https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=de&topic=ech&bgLayer=ch.swisstopo.pixelkarte-farbe&layers=ch.swisstopo.zeitreihen,ch.bfs.gebaeude_wohnungs_register,ch.bav.haltestellen-oev,ch.swisstopo.swisstlm3d-wanderwege&layers_visibility=true,false,false,false&layers_timestamp=20111231,,,&E=2650695&N=1177502&zoom=9&crosshair=marker>

These tracks have become useless without freight wagons available.

In 1953 OKK (responsible for Army logistics) received meter gauge Tm 5 RACO 1423. In 2011 this Tm was given to ZB Historic:
<https://www.zbhistoric.ch/rollmaterial.php?fahrzeug=OKK_5>

Markus


Re: SBB Cargo Changes

csipromo
 

Sorry. Once again I keep referring to SBB Cargo International as SBBCI when the official label SBB IN is used.
I did not mean it as anything other than an abbreviation of SBB Cargo International to save typing time.

Is any more information about the separation between the new SBB Cargo and SBB IN (SBB Cargo International) known?
I am specifically curious about the impact (if any) of these changes on the tractive power.
The MRCE (ES64F4) and Vectron (ELL, LokRoll and Suedleasing) machines were leased by SBB IN
According to Markus, the Re 474, 482, 484 are registered with SBBC.
If SBBCI (SBB Cargo Italia) now falls under SBB IN (separate from SBB Cargo), what will happen to the Re 474 and 484s routinely used by SBBCI?
I guess that the same thing could be said about SBB Cargo Deutschland and the Re 482s.

Regards

Mike C


Re: Zentralbahn spur and tunnel near Sarnen

Barry Emmott <barry.emmott@...>
 

You’ll find something similar to the north of the line near (I think – memory hazy !!) Brienzwiler.
Baz


Re: Zentralbahn spur and tunnel near Sarnen

Guerbetaler
 

Am 06.09.2019 um 18:12 schrieb Jonathan Marten:
Is there any information available on this branch
I'm sorry, this is secret. :-)


Zentralbahn spur and tunnel near Sarnen

Jonathan Marten
 

There is a mysterious tunnel entrance visible just to the east of the A8
autobahn, about 1.5km north of the Sarnen Nord junction. I looked at
this on the ground a couple of months ago, and there is a spur line off
the ZB line north of Sarnen Nord station, crossing the Kägiswilerstrasse
and Kernserstrasse and ending up under the A8 bridge, with that tunnel
entrance just on the far side. The rails go all the way up to the solid
metal door.

On the Google Street View image at

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@46.9099664,8.2628307,3a,63.4y,78.58h,91.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG4CADyTTKwmhu2yaJngzGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

the tracks look usable but slightly overgrown, and the catenary wire is
still in place. Today there is no overhead wire and part of the rails
seem to have been filled up with some sort of tar compound.

Is there any information available on this branch, or what is obviously
some sort of underground facility that it connects to? Have I stumbled
on the site of the Zentralbahn's Strategic Reserve (old uk.railway
joke)?

--
Jonathan Marten http://www.keelhaul.me.uk
Twickenham, UK jjm2@keelhaul.me.uk


Re: BLS 171

Martin Baumann
 

165 has been preserved by BLS Historic. It is unclear how long the locos will remain in traffic


Re: SBB Cargo Changes

Guerbetaler
 

Am 05.09.2019 um 21:26 schrieb John Beaulieu:
Interesting that this just concerns domestic SBB Cargo operations and
doesn't include SBBCI.i
The companies involved are those that took over the LCL business (label
Cargo Domizil) from SBB some 20 years ago.

I wonder about the sale of the Re482 locomotives as they would seem to be logical replacements for the Re420/421/430 locomotives which have rheostatic electrical braking rather than regenerative braking.
Re 420/421/430 have been equipped with regenerative braking from
delivery. This is an important difference to BLS Re 425, which are
equipped with dc traction motors versus ac single phase motors on the
SBB locomotives.

Will the fact that the older locomotives are fully depreciated be enough to offset the electrical power costs that could be saved
using the newer locomotives, The newer locomotives have meters to
measure electric power usage, while I doubt that the older
locomotives have such equipment. Also with the slow spread of ETCS
signalling across Switzerland, will it be cost effective to continue
to equip older locomotives with the necessary equipment?
SBB equipped also older locomotives with meters. Thus, the limiting factor for the use of Re 420 etc. will be the rise of maintenance costs.

ETCS L1LS is now complete and all locomotives can work on it. Quite an important number of locomotives has been equipped to work on L2. But adding further lines to L2 operation will only start in 2025 or even later.

Markus, Gürbetal


Re: SBB Cargo Changes

Guerbetaler
 

Am 05.09.2019 um 01:26 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
My question is how will this affect operations and locomotive ownership?
good question. wrong audience... :-)

The Re 474, 482, 484 were owned by SBB Cargo. I don't know if some
were registered with SBB Cargo Italia or SBB Cargo.
all registered with SBBC. SBBCI has no vehicle registered anywhere.

The Vectrons (LokRoll) were leased by SBB Cargo International.
yes, SBBIN. But you can't see this from the inscriptions.

As far as I know, the latest lease deal (Suedleasing) was also
SBBCI.
no, SBBIN

AFAIK the ELL (Vectron) and MRCE (ES64F4) leases were also under
SBBCI.
AFAIK SBBIN


Re: BLS 171

Clive Dean
 

Are any of these preserved yet? If not are there plans to do so? How long
are they likely to remain active for?


Re: SBB Cargo Changes

csipromo
 

SBB Cargo is the freight division of SBB. They sold 35% to a Consortium made up of several transport companies. I guess that because Hupac is a partner in SBB Cargo International, they probably would have opposed the deal, so the solution was to make SBBCI a separate division under SBB, which I guess would completely separate the two divisions from each other. I don't know how this will work. Will SBB Cargo only handle domestic traffic and contracts with other operators (DB Schenker, etc) or will they eventually start competing for international business and start their own operations outside of Switzerland?

Will SBBCI rely on it's own traction or will it still work with SBB Cargo or SBB for transportation through Switzerland?

I know that the Re 482s were seeing less demand since the economic turndown (2008) and that they are limited to CH/DE and maybe AT while newer leased machines can operate in D/A/CH/I/NL (the main north-south corridor). It is cheaper to lease locomotives with ECTS and multination homologation than to adapt the older machines. I am surprised that SBB Cargo did not work out some kind of lease exchange with MRCE or Railpool where the 482 would go for German/Austrian operators and SBB Cargo would get a break on new leases.

Regards

Mike C


Re: SBB Cargo Changes

John Beaulieu
 

Interesting that this just concerns domestic SBB Cargo operations and doesn't include SBBCI. I wonder about the sale of the Re482 locomotives as they would seem to be logical replacements for the Re420/421/430 locomotives which have rheostatic electrical braking rather than regenerative braking. Will the fact that the older locomotives are fully depreciated be enough to offset the electrical power costs that could be saved using the newer locomotives, The newer locomotives have meters to measure electric power usage, while I doubt that the
older locomotives have such equipment. Also with the slow spread of ETCS signalling across Switzerland, will it be cost effective to continue to equip older locomotives with the necessary
equipment?

John Beaulieu


BLS 171

Martin Baumann
 

171 has been withdrawn and is waiting for disposal in Ramsei


SBB Cargo Changes

csipromo
 

It was a big day for news regarding SBB Cargo and I have many questions...

To start with, Railcolor.net reported that 35% of SBB Cargo will be controlled by Swiss Combi AG, a joint venture composed of Planzer (40%), Camions Transport (40%), Galliker (10%) and Bertschi (10%). As part of this agreement, SBB Cargo International will fall under the administration of SBB. SBB Cargo International is controlled by SBB (75%) and Hupac (25%).

It was also reported in Drehscheibe Online that SBB Cargo intends to sell it's fleet of Bombardier Re 482.

I don't know if there is any direct connection, but if SBB Cargo is divesting itself of it's international operations (SBBCI), it may no longer require the Re 482, which were primarily used in Germany and on runs into or through Germany.

Bertschi was previously a minority partner in Rail4Chem before that company was sold to Veolia, taken over by SNCF and integrated into their ITL/Captrain operation.

My question is how will this affect operations and locomotive ownership? The Re 474, 482, 484 were owned by SBB Cargo. I don't know if some were registered with SBB Cargo Italia or SBB Cargo. The Vectrons (LokRoll) were leased by SBB Cargo International. As far as I know, the latest lease deal (Suedleasing) was also SBBCI. AFAIK the ELL (Vectron) and MRCE (ES64F4) leases were also under SBBCI.

Will this scramble the fleet and how will it be structured from here on out?

Regards

Mike C


Re: Special trains with 11407 or 141R1244 September 2019

gbgen <gbgen@...>
 

The trip at 14:00 on 8 Sep is now booked for the steam 141R1244. It had originally been advertised with 11407.


Re: SBB turnout points drive mechanisms

John Beaulieu
 

Higher speed turnout means longer moving blades, which requires additional switch motors. I have never seen more than 4 motors though.

John Beaulieu
Wisconsin - USA


SBB turnout points drive mechanisms

RG Teeter
 

I have been watching cab ride videos and noticed that turnouts (crossovers) seem to come with 1, 2, or 3 switch point drive mechanisms (motors). Also have seen 8 and 12 drives. I would like to know what then max or recommended speeds are for these turnouts (switches).

Another question, is the SBB teamwork controlled from one location, or more, and if so what city?

Curious person in Texas, Bob Teeter


SBB Trenord FLIRT 524 024 through Pratteln

davey
 

At 17.45. Rear destination indicator said Chiasso, did not clock the front one.


Re: RhB: first Ge 4/4 II withdrawn

gbgen <gbgen@...>
 

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