I was looking at this very nice map which shows all the railway
infrastructure in Switzerland:
http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/infra_services-uebersicht-karten-uebersicht-kursbuch-band-2.pdf

In case the link above does now show properly, here is a tinyurl link
to it:
http://tinyurl.com/3cdjoo

My question is why are railway lines past Luino in Italy and passed
Chiasso on the Swiss/Italian border marked in red as well? Previous
versions of this map showed them in grey.

I noticed the same thing on the line from Genève to Bellegarde and
from Basel SBB to Zell and from Schaffhausen passed Singen towards
Stuttgart.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

My question is why are railway lines past Luino in Italy and passed
Chiasso on the Swiss/Italian border marked in red as well? Previous
versions of this map showed them in grey.

I noticed the same thing on the line from Genève to Bellegarde and
from Basel SBB to Zell and from Schaffhausen passed Singen towards
Stuttgart.

I don't have the Kursbuch at hand, but the lines around Basel give a
hint: the lines are covered in the "domestic" section of the
Kursbuch, and therefore red. The lines to the Wiesental are on table
501 according to the map key.

Max.

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, "airliners_2000"
<airliners_2000@...> wrote:

I was looking at this very nice map which shows all the railway
infrastructure in Switzerland:
<http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/infra_services-uebersicht-karten-uebersicht-kursbuch-band-2.pdf>

In case the link above does now show properly, here is a tinyurl

link

to it:
http://tinyurl.com/3cdjoo

My question is why are railway lines past Luino in Italy and passed
Chiasso on the Swiss/Italian border marked in red as well? Previous
versions of this map showed them in grey.

I noticed the same thing on the line from Genève to Bellegarde and
from Basel SBB to Zell and from Schaffhausen passed Singen towards
Stuttgart.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I presume that this map includes routes operated by SBB in other
territories as well. SBB runs commuter service north of Basel, both
in France and in Germany, as well as along the Rhine. The SBB
subsidiary Thurbo used to run commuter service in Germany north of
Koblenz. S-Bahn services in the Schaffhausen area run to Singen and
possibly a little further north towards Stuttgart.
As far as the routes into Italy (Chiasso), I presume that this may
indicate the routes operated by Tilo, joint venture of the SBB and
Trenitalia (FS). The Luino line is operated by the SBB (see route
633). I don't know where the terminus (handover to FS) on this line
is.
The route into France at Bellegarde may be related to the Geneva S-
Bahn (RER) to La Plaine. You can look up route 151 for more details
The route into France (Pontarlier) is usedfor TGV (Bern-Frasne-Paris).

The website probably also has a list of routes by number.

Regards

Mike C

airliners_2000 wrote:

I was looking at this very nice map which shows all the railway
infrastructure in Switzerland:

<http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/infra_services-uebersicht-karten-uebersicht-kursbuch-band-2.pdf>

You had better look at www.fahrplanfelder.ch where this map really
belongs. Click "Explanations" then you will find the synoptic maps
(depending on th size of your screen you need to scroll down).

My question is why are railway lines past Luino in Italy and passed
Chiasso on the Swiss/Italian border marked in red as well? Previous
versions of this map showed them in grey.

I noticed the same thing on the line from Gen�ve to Bellegarde and
from Basel SBB to Zell and from Schaffhausen passed Singen towards
Stuttgart.

This map shows the content of the Kursbuch and equally of the
site mentioned above. There are also several bus lines running on
Italian territory that are in yellow which says, that you will find the
timetable in the Official Timetable of Switzerland.

It was, by the way, an input from this group that led to the
web-publication of these maps (see messages of 6 Jan 2007).
:-)

Markus, G�rbetal

csipromo wrote:

... http://mct.sbb.ch ...
The website probably also has a list of routes by number.

No, the SBB website doesn't, but the official timetable site
www.fahrplanfelder.ch does.

Markus, G�rbetal

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, "Guerbetaler" <guerbetaler@...> wrote:

This map shows the content of the Kursbuch and equally of the
site mentioned above. There are also several bus lines running on
Italian territory that are in yellow which says, that you will find the
timetable in the Official Timetable of Switzerland.

It was, by the way, an input from this group that led to the
web-publication of these maps (see messages of 6 Jan 2007).
:-)

Markus, Gürbetal

But the Fahrplanfelder (Kursbuch) only shows the timetable up until
Chiasso and up until Luino when you enter 600 and 633 in the route number.

So I still don't get why it marks the track beyond Luino and Chiasso
in red.

airliners_2000 wrote:

But the Fahrplanfelder (Kursbuch) only shows the timetable up until
Chiasso and up until Luino when you enter 600 and 633 in the route
number.

So I still don't get why it marks the track beyond Luino and Chiasso
in red.

In 633 I find Luino - Gallarate and in 600 I find Milano Centrale -
Como S. Giovanni - Chiasso. Don't you see them?

Markus, G�rbetal

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, "Guerbetaler" <guerbetaler@...> wrote:

In 633 I find Luino - Gallarate and in 600 I find Milano Centrale -
Como S. Giovanni - Chiasso. Don't you see them?

Markus, Gürbetal

I see Luino - Gallarate listed, but this route operates exclusively in
Italy. Why would it be considered part of the Swiss network?

All trains from Switzerland towards Luino terminate in Luino.

Regarding Milano Centrale - Como S. Giovanni - Chiasso, I see the
EuroCity Cisalpino and Regio services. I assume the EC services are
not included or else the line from Buchs into Austria, the line from
St. Margarethen, and the lines into France and Germany from Basel SBB
would be in red as well.

Regarding the Regio services from Chiasso to Milano, these aren't
listed in the Kursbuch timetable as I assume they are operated by
Trenitalia and are thus considered part of the Italian network?

I can see the line from Gare des Eaux-Vives to Annemasse is in grey
because it is operated by SNCF and is considered part of the French
network.

airliners_2000 wrote:

I see Luino - Gallarate listed, but this route operates exclusively
in Italy. Why would it be considered part of the Swiss network?

Sorry, but don't mix up things. We are speaking about a synoptical
map of the timetable. It doesn't deal with the question if anything
might be "Swiss" in some way or not. It only and simply shows
the lines of which you will find infromation in the official timetable.
Thats all. Nothing else. Stop thinking and interpreting. It is just a
timetable map. Really.
:-)

Markus, G�rbetal

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, "airliners_2000"

<airliners_2000@...> wrote:

I was looking at this very nice map which shows all the railway

infrastructure in Switzerland:

This was a poor description of the map. It does not show all
Switzerland Railway Infrastructure. Just a cartographical
representation of the Swiss timetable routes. Such maps have and
always will be (*for all countries) somewhat general in nature and
not the place to check railway infrastructure minutae.

One place where "all the railway infrastructure in Switzerland"
really is shown is in the Schweers +Wall Eisenbahn Atlas, here:
<http://www.schweers-wall.de/html/atlas_schweiz.html>

Another simpler map is here:
<http://www.europeanrailwayatlas.com/PDF/switzerland%20brochure.pdf>

Or perhaps even here (a professional railway operators map – at a
price) (!):<http://www.jerid.cz/english/show.php3?
action=product_railmap&session=58nd01r31y03h22t2008>



I agree with Markus. You are being over analytical about a `guide'
map. In any case, as far as I can see every line shown in red* IS
mentioned in some way in the `domestic' Swiss Kursbuch – this is
obviously the criteria for the map, which is therefore correctly
described as a synoptic map of the Swiss domestic timetable pages.

The red (and yellow) lines outside Switzerland represent two things:
either
(a) routes with some trains operated by SBB-CFF (eg Genève –
Bellegarde where even the SNCF equipment used on the all stations
locals are on hire to CFF)
(b) shown for general onward connection information only – eg Milano
on the Gotthard tables 600 etc, and Stuttgart on table 760

* Stuttgart is on table 760
Luino – Gallarate is included in 630
Bellegarde is on table 151
Schaffhausen – Singen – Konstanz is on table 763/830
Tirano – Lugano bus is in table 90.731

etc etc

GE Eaux Vives – Annemasse is correctly in grey because it is only
shown in international table 5115