[RhB] The Allegras take over


Guerbetaler
 

The diagrams for RhB motive power, valid from 25 October, have been published.
<http://www.rhb.ch/Lokdienste.995.0.html>

Five Allegras (ABe 8/12) will, together with a pair of ABe 4/4 III, cover the Bernina services. Three ABe 4/4 III are reserve. Gem 801-02 and ABe II 47-49 will change to Infrastructure but can, of course, jump in if necessary. 41-46 might go to scrap soon.

Two Allegras will take over the Landquart - Davos - Filisur services from Ge 4/4 II which return to the Engadin and replace the Ge 4/4 I.

Arosa remains in the hands of three Ge 4/4 II with driving trailers 1701-1703 and one Ge 4/4 I with BDt (1721-23).

Two Ge 4/4 I keep substantial freight movements, 4 others keep little jobs and are kept as reserve. The end is in sight!

Markus, Gï¿œrbetal


tudor erich
 

41-46 might go to scrap soon [...]
Two Ge 4/4 I keep substantial freight movements, 4 others keep
little jobs and are kept as reserve. The end is in sight!
Very sad but inevitable I suppose.
 
Bernard


Heléna Moretti
 

________________________________
From: Markus <guerbetaler@...>
Subject: [SwissRail] [RhB] The Allegras take over


"Arosa remains in the hands of three Ge 4/4 II with driving trailers 1701-1703
and one Ge 4/4 I with BDt (1721-23).Two Ge 4/4 I keep substantial freight
movements, 4 others keep little jobs and are kept as reserve. The end is in
sight!"


Question:

Is there any idea on withdrawals of Ge4/4' as I heard 603 & 604 were to be
parked up after the winter ski season passed. Will the Ge4/4' still work the
evening Chur-Ilanz commuter service and the Bergun-Preda sledge shuttles this
winter?


Heléna

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gordonwis
 

The Chur - Ilanz commuter service (and the Glacier Express run to Disentis which is only 4/4I outside high summer)  is indeed on the 4/4I diagram (visible on the link provided by Markus) .
 
I sincerely hope the Ge4/4I shuttles will reappear on the winter timetable (as opposed to the Autumn only timetable just published) as I have booked a few days in February at the Grischuna!


 Heléna Moretti  wrote:






Will the Ge4/4' still work the evening Chur-Ilanz commuter service and the Bergun-Preda sledge shuttles this
winter?





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OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 21.10.2010 23:57, schrieb Markus:
The diagrams for RhB motive power, valid from 25 October, have been
published.
<http://www.rhb.ch/Lokdienste.995.0.html>

Five Allegras (ABe 8/12) will, together with a pair of ABe 4/4 III,
cover the Bernina services. Three ABe 4/4 III are reserve. Gem 801-02
and ABe II 47-49 will change to Infrastructure but can, of course, jump
in if necessary. 41-46 might go to scrap soon.
Today the staff decorated the fronts of some ABe II, at least 44 and 45, for their last day of work, after 46 years.

Markus, Gï¿œrbetal


tudor erich
 

Today the staff decorated the fronts of some ABe II, at least 44
and 45, for their last day of work, after 46 years.
Any pictures?
 
Bernard


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 24.10.2010 17:21, schrieb tudoryork:
Today the staff decorated the fronts of some ABe II, at least 44
and 45, for their last day of work, after 46 years.
Any pictures?
Not (yet) on public sites.

Markus, Gï¿œrbetal


Toma Bacic
 

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Guerbetaler
<muesche2-swissrail@...> wrote:
Am 21.10.2010 23:57, schrieb Markus:
Today the staff decorated the fronts of some ABe II, at least 44 and 45,
for their last day of work, after 46 years.
Which ABe II will be preserved?

regards from Zagreb
toma


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 24.10.2010 20:29, schrieb Toma Bacic:
Which ABe II will be preserved?
None of the ABe II will be formally preserved. But 47-49 will be assigned to Departmental stock.

Markus, Gï¿œrbetal


glenn allen
 

Still a chance for the last ones to provide a specimen for preservation.

What about 601-610 ? any of those slated for preservation or the museum at
Berguen?

Although both the railcars and locos are old, is there no chance of selling them
to another railway?





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Max Wyss
 

Although both the railcars and locos are old, is there no chance of selling them
to another railway?
Sell it to where?

Railcars: not really suitable for day-by-day operation, as
accessibility is an issue. Also, I am not sure whether they still have
asbesto insulation. Then, find a meter gauge railway with 1000 VDC,
and a low maximum speed. That would leave open, maybe, some tourist
lines. Then again, find a tourist line with meter gauge, 1000 VDC, and
sufficient funds...

Locomotives: Find a meter gauge line with 11 kv/16.7 Hz AC
electrification... have fun...

Max.


brucie1772001 <bs177@...>
 

I wondered if the surplus railcars would find homes on other railways as they must be in far better condition than many on the minor metre gauge lines.

Looking at the Alp Grum webcam for today, it does not look as if many trains (if any) are running!

Cheers

Bruce


Guerbetaler
 

Am 25.10.2010 15:50, schrieb brucie1772001:
I wondered if the surplus railcars would find homes on other railways
as they must be in far better condition than many on the minor metre
gauge lines.
I don't know why you think this.

Markus, Gï¿œrbetal


Illya Vaes
 

2010/10/25 glenn allen <glenn_rhb@...>
Still a chance for the last ones to provide a specimen for preservation.
It may be because I'm a fan of the ABe 4/4 II, but I think it
would be a shame (possibly even a disgrace) if none of them
were preserved.
It seems to me their role was at least as important as that of
ABe 4/4 I nrs. 30 and 34. Of course, with 47-49 in departmental
duty, they could still stand a chance of being a preserved
ABe 4/4 II, but it would be odd to preserve one of a follow-up
order of several years later than the original "modern" ABe
(though I like the number 42 more, I'd say 41 should be "the
one").

Does the RhB have some kind of "official" preservation policy
(ie. beside touristic motives of operating obviously "antique"
stuff)?


gordonwis
 

As usual, this discussion has headed down the 'personal preference' path. We clearly all have our favourites but I would like to give some balance to this debate with the  following points:
 
1) Switzerland has its own economy, not everything can/should be geared to tourists, however much the tourists might want it that way (that's why not every building in Switzerland is a 'chocolate box') 
 
2) IMHO it is not possible nor desirable to preserve every single last bit of railway stock, however much railway enthusiasts might want that to happen. Take the UK and France, where there are rusting hulks all over the place which are 'preserved' but eventually often fall to pieces anyway through lack of money and resources to treat every 'saved' railway vehicle.   

 
 

---  Illya Vaes <> wrote:
but I think it would be a shame (possibly even a disgrace) if none of them
were preserved.





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Illya Vaes
 

2010/10/26 Gordon Wiseman <gordonwis@...>
As usual, this discussion has headed down the 'personal
preference' path. We clearly all have our favourites but I
would like to give some balance to this debate
I was under the impression that stating my subjective
opinion upfront gave some balance to what I said.
Not to mention that only with your post it actually
_became_ a debate ;-}

1) Switzerland has its own economy, not everything
can/should be geared to tourists, however much the
tourists might want it that way (that's why not every
 building in Switzerland is a 'chocolate box')
And?
And why say it as a "balancing point" when I actually
separated the preservation from touristic considerations
because the latter only boils down to "earning money".
How can preservation as an end in itself, i.e. "only costing
money, not being paid for by tourists", be "geared to
tourists"?
Preservation has to do with cultural heritage.

2) IMHO it is not possible nor desirable to preserve
every single last bit of railway stock, however much
railway enthusiasts might want that to happen.
Really... One ABe 4/4 II (from nine) that has been the
_mainstay_ of the Berninabahn for 24 to 46 (depending
on your view wrt. the ABe 4/4 III's influence from 1988),
seeing the introduction of the Bernina Expresses is
"every single last bit of railway stock"...
That's not balancing, that's putting up an extreme
strawman and clubbing it down, even without the
completely wrongful comparison with load of rusting
hulks in the UK and France.
We are talking about ONE Triebwagen being added to
_TWO_ already preserved. Both yellow and looking quite
the same, I might add. I'd suggest scrapping one of those,
if it's such a burden (but then the RhB might bring in less
money and draw less "tourists" like me), but I won't since
I'm also a fan of those (though I've only seen them in red
myself, in 1999).

(How many Krokodils out of how many where preserved again?)


brucie1772001 <bs177@...>
 

My perception whilst travelling on narrow gauge lines (not recently I admit) was that the RhB units on the Bernina were in much better condition and the passenger accommodation much better appointed than many units I encountered on other metre gauge lines.

It could be that the RhB units have deteriorated or the other lines' units refurbished in the meantime which will destroy my thinking. Of course I bow to more local and recent knowledge.

Whilst it would be nice to see examples preserved, experience in the UK shows that modernised trains and infrastructure bring in more revenue and far more than can be generated by the nostalgia market.
I think that the RhB have got things about right and they should be applauded but it only needs a change in leadership and policy to sweep away the old and provide the minimalist railway and facilities that we see here.

Best wishes

Bruce


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 26.10.2010 08:40, schrieb Illya Vaes:
2010/10/25 glenn allen<glenn_rhb@...>
Still a chance for the last ones to provide a specimen for preservation.
It seems to me their role was at least as important as that of
ABe 4/4 I nrs. 30 and 34. Of course, with 47-49 in departmental
duty, they could still stand a chance of being a preserved
ABe 4/4 II, but it would be odd to preserve one of a follow-up
order of several years later than the original "modern" ABe
(though I like the number 42 more, I'd say 41 should be "the
one").
41 and 42 are in really bad state technically and it wouldn't make sense to preserve one of these. I can't see why 47-49 wouldn't equally represent the ABe II. They are a bit longer (more space for the driver!), yes, but otherwise they ARE ABe II. Likewise ABe I 30 is of the second series and is longer than ABe I 34.

RhB doesn't get money for the preservation of vehicles. Thus, departmental use is a very good way to preserve vehicles until they are really historic! I think, RhB does a very good job in preservation but expecting more would mean to give money. Who will donate?

Markus, Gï¿œrbetal


Illya Vaes
 

2010/10/27 Guerbetaler <muesche2-swissrail@...>:
41 and 42 are in really bad state technically and it wouldn't make sense
to preserve one of these.
If that's true, I hate to say that they're not very good candidates.
Where does this knowledge stem from and do you know
what constitutes "really (!) bad state technically"?
Only being able to be used together sounds more like
deferred maintenance to me, and they sure seemed to work
(and look) just as good as 43-49 last July.

I can't see why 47-49 wouldn't equally
represent the ABe II. They are a bit longer (more space for the
driver!), yes, but otherwise they ARE ABe II.
I can find peace with that ;-)
(especially if the alternative is none at all)

Likewise ABe I 30 is of
the second series and is longer than ABe I 34.
Yes, but they _both_ still exist / are preserved.
I have no problem with that, but if an argument is raised
about cost of preserving one Triebwagen, then two of
more or less the same kind of Triebwagen effectively
nullifies that argument.

RhB doesn't get money for the preservation of vehicles. Thus,
departmental use is a very good way to preserve vehicles until they are
really historic!
Agreed.
It's just that the devil is in the detail that logic requires the
RhB to use the newest (usually in the best shape) vehicles,
thereby condeming the really most historic one (the first one)
to the scrapheap.

I think, RhB does a very good job in preservation but
expecting more would mean to give money. Who will donate?
Maybe I would, depends on how and what (and how much).
I do agree that they suffer from having stayed so modern
despite being 46 years old, and they have never worn a
visually clearly "older" livery like the ABe 4/4 I (I think the all-
over red may not be different enough, though I personally
don't like it), so drumming up support or getting income
by running specials with it may be difficult...


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 26.10.2010 15:32, schrieb brucie1772001:
My perception whilst travelling on narrow gauge lines (not recently I
admit) was that the RhB units on the Bernina were in much better
condition and the passenger accommodation much better appointed than
many units I encountered on other metre gauge lines.
The RhB units were clean, yes. But this doesn't necessarily mean they were in a technically good condition. And if you say "other metre gauge lines", which ones do you mean? I really don't know of any company running "rotten material".

Markus, Gï¿œrbetal