ZB unit invasion starts


Keith Hookham <keith47424@...>
 

Check out http://www.zentralbahn.ch/
--
Cheers Keith47424


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 15.02.2012 23:42, schrieb Keith Hookham:
ZB unit invasion starts
Your title is wrong. Correctly it should read:

ZB unit invasion continues.

10 EMU are already there, since 2004-05, now 10 more are to arrive:
4 7-car-units for the hourly IR trains
6 3-car-units as additional capacity on IR, replacement of a 3-car-sub-unit of the 7-car units and as amendment to the existing 10 adhesion only EMUs

The 10 new EMUS will finally replace the 67-year old motor luggage vans and the ex-LSE motor coaches BDeh 4/4. The eight locomotives HGe 4/4" will remain for the Engelberg IR trains and all supplementary peak traffic trains of all sorts.

A summertime 7-car plus 3-car IR Luzern - Interlaken is a clear improvement in capacity and comfort against the now running loco-hauled trains with a maximum of eight coaches. These new trains will come near to the former trains that creeped over the Br�nig with three motor luggage vans at the head!

With the surprisingly positive experience of the MGB EMUs in mind, I look forward to this new sort of travel on the Br�nig line.

Markus, G�rbetal


Keith Hookham <keith47424@...>
 

With the surprisingly positive experience of the MGB EMUs in mind, I look forward to this new sort of travel on the Brünig line.
Good point about the title. I take that on board. However the above quote?????? You will set Helena off you know. ;-)
Cheers Keith


Guerbetaler
 

Am 16.02.2012 16:22, schrieb Keith Hookham:
Good point about the title. I take that on board. However the above
quote?????? You will set Helena off you know. ;-)
Not everybody likes the same menues, people are different...
:-)

Markus, Gürbetal


Andrew
 

Not everybody likes the same menues, people are different...
:-)

Markus, Gürbetal


Correct, but some people DO like the same menu which is why they go back for more and more and more. Lets hope The Swiss don't change their brilliant menu and spoil it too much with new recipes !

Andrew


Heléna Moretti
 

Am 16.02.2012 16:22, schrieb Keith Hookham:

Good point about the title. I take that on board. However the above quote?????? You will set Helena off you know. ;-)
Markus replied....

Not everybody likes the same menues, people are different...
:-)


I say...

I have already given up on the unit-infested place, like the U.K., they, the Swiss, are heading headlong to every train being a multiple unit of some description. I shall come over to see my beautiful little Re4/4" and wonderful, dirty green Ae6/6 and when they are gone, I shall come no more.

Simples!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John Lovda
 

I agree with you 100%. I have come to Switzerland 20 times to take pictures of trains (mainly locomotives). My most recent trip last October seemed particularly depressing. All these new trains look like modified Zurich street trams. Even the RhB has them now. I wonder when the Glacier Express (MGB) starts using them. If you combine this with 50km black tunnels in the future, only workday commuters will be impressed. But I guess that's what all this is designed for.


Fionnbarr Kennedy
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, Keith Hookham <keith47424@...> wrote:

Check out http://www.zentralbahn.ch/
--
Cheers Keith47424
and

http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/first-of-10-zentralbahn-rack-trains-rolls-out.html

Cheers
Fionnbarr
www.fionnbarr.com


Krist van Besien
 

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Guerbetaler
<muesche2-swissrail@yahoo.de> wrote:

4 7-car-units for the hourly IR trains
Looking at the timetable tells me that they need at least 5 consists
for this service. Won't they be permanently short a unit this way? Or
do they expect to speed the service up enough so that they can make do
with four consists?

Krist

--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bremgarten b. Bern, Switzerland
--
A: It reverses the normal flow of conversation.
Q: What's wrong with top-posting?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What's the biggest scourge on plain text email discussions?


Mark Pichowicz
 

How will the Golden Pass services work with the new units? My understanding was that if/when the proposed gauge changing stock is introduced then the GP services will run from Montreux to Luzern throughout with the same stock. Surely this would still require loco haulage between Interlaken and Luzern in the same way as now, so perhaps continued work for the HGe 101s.

Also, although I see the potential improvement for passengers with not having to change stock in this proposal, time wise I would imagine that drawing the stock slowly through the gauge changing mechanism and then performing a loco change (I assume loks wont be able to change gauge) at both Zweisimmen and Interlaken would take longer than the current very efficient across platform train changes for passengers, thus slowing down the service overall.

Mark


JSScherrer@...
 

I had no idea there was such a thing as "gauge changing stock".
Does that exist anywhere now?
Is that a Swiss-invented Technology?

Regards,


Jim Scherrer
International Bundesbrief Society
120 Arrandale Boulevard
Technology Center
Exton, PA 19341
484-875-1700
_JScherrer@WebAlly.com_ (mailto:JScherrer@WebAlly.com)
_www.Bundesbrief.org_ (http://www.Bundesbrief.org)


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 17.02.2012 18:17, schrieb Mark Pichowicz:
How will the Golden Pass services work with the new units? My
understanding was that if/when the proposed gauge changing stock is
introduced then the GP services will run from Montreux to Luzern
throughout with the same stock. Surely this would still require loco
haulage between Interlaken and Luzern in the same way as now, so
perhaps continued work for the HGe 101s.
MOB gauge change bogies are not fitted with cogwheel. A gauge change installation is only planned for Zweisimmen.

Also, although I see the potential improvement for passengers with
not having to change stock in this proposal, time wise I would
imagine that drawing the stock slowly through the gauge changing
mechanism and then performing a loco change (I assume loks wont be
able to change gauge) at both Zweisimmen and Interlaken would take
longer than the current very efficient across platform train changes
for passengers, thus slowing down the service overall.
Furthermore, Interlaken is an important point for international travellers. Most of them stop over in the Jungfrau region and only then continue to Luzern (or Montreux, if coming from Luzern).

In a frist step, moning and evening trains start and end in Interlaken. In between they will only go as far as Spiez, where Connections to IC and EC services are made.

Markus, G�rbetal


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 17.02.2012 11:39, schrieb Krist van Besien:
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Guerbetaler
<muesche2-swissrail@yahoo.de> wrote:

4 7-car-units for the hourly IR trains
Looking at the timetable tells me that they need at least 5 consists
for this service. Won't they be permanently short a unit this way? Or
do they expect to speed the service up enough so that they can make do
with four consists?
Investments are on the way to allow a timetable with 4 consists, say a journey time of less than two hours. The stop in Merinigen will then be much shorter.

Maintenance planning must then allow to have all four sets available during the main season. On a grey November day, a 3-car-unit will do...

Markus, G�rbetal


john_dmj
 

On 17/02/2012 17:17, Mark Pichowicz wrote:


How will the Golden Pass services work with the new units? My
understanding was that if/when the proposed gauge changing stock is
introduced then the GP services will run from Montreux to Luzern
throughout with the same stock. Surely this would still require loco
haulage between Interlaken and Luzern in the same way as now, so
perhaps continued work for the HGe 101s.
It can not achieve this. Trains from Interlaken to Luzern need to be
fully rack-fitted (i.e. all coaches engage the rack, not just the loco!)
for braking purposes. With the gauge-change system, there is no way the
cog can be fitted to the stock. Montreux to Interlaken, then change to a
second train!

J


JSScherrer@...
 

Has anyone done a cost benefit comparison of changing the rail vs changing
the loks and stock?



Regards,

Jim Scherrer
Scherrer Resources, Inc.
Technology Center
120 Arrandale Boulevard
Exton, PA 19341
484-875-1700
JScherrer@WebAlly.com


Max Wyss
 

It can not achieve this. Trains from Interlaken to Luzern need to be
fully rack-fitted (i.e. all coaches engage the rack, not just the loco!)
for braking purposes. With the gauge-change system, there is no way the
cog can be fitted to the stock. Montreux to Interlaken, then change to a
second train!
Actually, the Brünig grades allow a certain number of coaches not to
be equipped with braking cogs. However, at the moment, the
gauge-changing bogie is complicated enough, so that the provision for
braking cogs is not included. From the way the system works, it would,
however, be somehow possible to include braking cogs.

Max.


George Raymond
 

My understanding was that if/when the proposed gauge changing stock is
introduced then the GP services will run from Montreux to Luzern
throughout with the same stock.
It can not achieve this. Trains from Interlaken to Luzern need to be
fully rack-fitted (i.e. all coaches engage the rack, not just the loco!)
for braking purposes. With the gauge-change system, there is no way the
cog can be fitted to the stock. Montreux to Interlaken, then change to a
second train!
In any case, I have read that only a small proportion of travellers want to
go directly from Montreux to Luzern; most want to stop in Interlaken, and
the Jungfrau Region surely wants to keep it that way.

George


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 18.02.2012 01:35, schrieb JSScherrer@aol.com:
Has anyone done a cost benefit comparison of changing the rail vs changing
the loks and stock?
Yes.


JSScherrer@...
 

And what were their findings. Can you refer me to the comparative analysis
and the cost benefit ratio?

Regards,


Jim Scherrer
Bundesbrief Society

120 Arrandale Boulevard
Technology Center
Exton, PA 19341
484-875-1700
JScherrer@WebAlly.com

_www.Bundesbrief.org_ (http://www.Bundesbrief.org)