Apple and the SBB clock


John Lovda
 

A salesman at the Apple Store in an Akron, OH mall told me that Apple settled with the SBB giving them $7M to license the clock image. Any truth to that?


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 05.12.2012 20:54, schrieb jlovda:
A salesman at the Apple Store in an Akron, OH mall told me that Apple
settled with the SBB giving them $7M to license the clock image. Any
truth to that?
The sum mentioned in Swiss newspapers was about three times that. That's the rumour. The rest of the story has been confirmed.

Markus, G�rbetal


John Lovda
 

Thanks for the reply.

Wow...if the ~$20M estimate is correct, that ought to buy one really nice locomotive!

I am not an "Apple person" and today was the first time I saw the clock on an iPad up close. The minute hand even jumps when the red ball hits 12. I wonder if Mondaine is getting part of the settlement.

John


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 06.12.2012 02:23, schrieb jlovda:
I wonder if Mondaine is getting part of the settlement.
And why do you think they should? Mondaine has an SBB license to copy their design for watches and Apple now has a license to copy their design to show the time on a screen. SBB kept the rights of their design for real station clocks. Now?

Markus, G�rbetal


Krist van Besien
 

On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Guerbetaler <muesche2-swissrail@yahoo.de> wrote:
And why do you think they should? Mondaine has an SBB license to copy
their design for watches and Apple now has a license to copy their
design to show the time on a screen. SBB kept the rights of their design
for real station clocks. Now?
I'm not a lawyer, but I wonder. I thought design patents expired after
20 years, just like normal patents.

Krist

--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bern, Switzerland


Guerbetaler
 

Am 07.12.2012 08:25, schrieb Krist van Besien:
I'm not a lawyer, but I wonder. I thought design patents expired after
20 years, just like normal patents.
Something like that, yes. But SBB was clever enough to find other ways to protect the image. I'm also not a lawyer but think I understood that they can register it as brand ("Markenschutz").

Markus, G�rbetal


timngoodwin
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, Markus <guerbetaler@...> wrote:

Am 07.12.2012 08:25, schrieb Krist van Besien:
I'm not a lawyer, but I wonder. I thought design patents expired after
20 years, just like normal patents.
Something like that, yes. But SBB was clever enough to find other ways
to protect the image. I'm also not a lawyer but think I understood that
they can register it as brand ("Markenschutz").

Markus, Gürbetal
The key distinction is between patents and copyrights. Patents generally cover physical objects or processes. A patent normally offers exclusivity for the inventor in a particular geographical area, for a fee, for a particular length of time.

A copyright covers artistic works and in most jurisdictions remains with the author/creator for his/her life (and sometimes for a period after their death). This means they have sole rights to sell and/or reproduce a design/image/text as they wish.

What I don't understand, and perhaps someone can provide clarity, is when a copyright is owned by an organisation, not an individual. Presumably, the rights to the Swiss railways clock are owned by SBB, not the estate of Hans Hilfiker, the original designer, who was working for SBB at the time.

Regards,
Tim.


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 08.12.2012 10:27, schrieb timngoodwin:
Presumably, the rights to the Swiss railways clock are owned by SBB, not
the estate of Hans Hilfiker, the original designer, who was working for SBB at the time.

Yes, see (English/German/French/Italian)

https://www.swissreg.ch/srclient/en/tm/P-512830
https://www.swissreg.ch/srclient/de/tm/P-512830
https://www.swissreg.ch/srclient/fr/tm/P-512830
https://www.swissreg.ch/srclient/it/tm/P-512830


csipromo
 

The clock is registered as a trademark, an image that is associated with the company (the brand), similar to the way that the M is associated with Migros or with McDonald's depending on the design.

Regards

Mike C


timngoodwin
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, "csipromo" <csipromo@...> wrote:

The clock is registered as a trademark, an image that is associated with the company (the brand), similar to the way that the M is associated with Migros or with McDonald's depending on the design.

Regards

Mike C
This is itself quite interesting. Trademarks for a logo or brand are sought when there is a strong association to a particular product or organisation. Does the Swiss railways clock associate with SBB in people's mind, or with Switzerland? For me it's the latter.

Secondly, does this mean that all of the other railway companies in Switzerland have to ask SBB for a licence to use the clock design at their stations?

In any case, I wish Google would do the same as Apple and create an Android version :-)

Regards,
Tim.


Max Wyss
 

Secondly, does this mean that all of the other railway companies in Switzerland have to ask SBB for a licence to use the clock design at their stations?
From what I believe to remember reading, the SBB did grant a licence
to the maker of station clocks. However, I don't know any details
about that licence, but it could be that it is limited to Switzerland.
And then, it could cover non-SBB stations as well.

Max.


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 09.12.2012 10:57, schrieb timngoodwin:
In any case, I wish Google would do the same as Apple and create an
Android version :-)
Apple's licence is only for iPad

iPhone owners still have a short time to get the SwissRailwayClock app from the iTunes store. It must disappear on 24th December 2012.

<https://itunes.apple.com/ch/app/swissrailwayclock/id306098880?mt=8&affId=1881396&ign-mpt=uo%3D4>

And then, there is still the official screensaver from SBB for free download:

<http://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/allgemeine-informationen/wallpaper-en/sbb-uhr.html>

Markus, G�rbetal


John Lovda
 

The only problem with the SBB download (from my memory, its been awhile) is that the clock is locked to Swiss local time and cannot be reset to another time zone such as US Eastern Standard time. Is is also true for the clock that can be inserted into a webpage.


csipromo
 

The iPhone app ask for permission to access your location information and then updates the clock to the appropriate time zone,

The advantage of the iPad version is that is the default time application which is displayed when the device is on standby.

MC


Krist van Besien
 

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:27 AM, timngoodwin <timngoodwin@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
The key distinction is between patents and copyrights. Patents generally cover physical objects or processes. A patent normally offers exclusivity for the inventor in a particular geographical area, for a fee, for a particular length of time.
Yes, but I was talking about design patents, not a patent on an
invention. They are different from copyrights. They cover what is
called the "ornamental design of a functional item", and I would think
that the SBB clock is exactly that. Copyright is for "non functional
items", so would not apply here.
Maybe that's also what Apple's lawyers' thought. That the design
patent of the clock must have expired long ago. However, SBB
apparently managed to trademark it, which I find a bit odd...

Krist

--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bern, Switzerland


csipromo
 

The distinctive element that gives the SBB the basis for a copyright or trademark is the fact that the second hand is a reproduction of the hand signal used to indicate the departure of a train, which is probably the part of the design that cannot be copied.

Regards

Mike C


Bill Weber
 

The only problem with the SBB download (from my memory, its been
awhile) is that the clock is locked to Swiss local time and cannot
be reset to another time zone such as US Eastern Standard time. Is
is also true for the clock that can be inserted into a webpage.
I have the SBB clock on my desk top here in Northern Virginia with Eastern
time.

Bill Weber


[Quoting repaired by the moderator]


George Raymond
 

I have the SBB clock on my desk top here in Northern Virginia with Eastern
time.

An SBB clock is prominently visible in the departure hall of Boston
airport's Terminal E, just above the main Departures display and below a
large American flag. It shows Boston time.

George


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 20.01.2013 14:11, schrieb George Raymond:
I have the SBB clock on my desk top here in Northern Virginia with
Eastern time.
An SBB clock is prominently visible in the departure hall of Boston
airport's Terminal E, just above the main Departures display and
below a large American flag. It shows Boston time.
I suppose the clock in the airport is a real clock, not a displayed one, as discussed here.

Markus, G�rbetal


George Raymond
 

An SBB clock is prominently visible in the departure hall of Boston
airport's Terminal E, just above the main Departures display and below
a large American flag. It shows Boston time.
I suppose the clock in the airport is a real clock, not a displayed
one, as discussed here.
That's right.

George