FLIRT France now allowed in France...


OL.Guerbetal
 

StadlerRail and SBB have finally got approval for the second edition of the FLIRT France (RABe 522.2). SBB announced first use would be to Mulhouse. I wonder if they will also get to Frasne or not...

Markus, Gürbetal


Kidger Paul
 

Markus
 
Does this mean that services such as the S1 will now again be able to run through Basel.  Do I remember correctly that before the FLIRTs were introduced, this service did run through to Mulhouse.
I know that we have discussed this before, but what is the procedure for current changeover. I have seen the 15 and 25 indicators over Basel 'through' platform No 3. I assume that the trains must stop, isolate the transformer and drop the pantograph, change transformer primary tappings, wait for the voltage indicator to change, raise maybe a different pantograph, re energise the transformer and ready to go. Do you know if the rolling stock has protection facilities to guard against incorrect high tension systems being selected. 25 kV and 15kV is a lot less likely to be catastrophic than, for example the Bernina through trains with 11 kV AC and 1000 V DC on the centre 'through' platform at Pontresina and I presume certain 'exchange' tracks at St Moritz.
 
Paul Kidger


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 21.12.2012 12:04, schrieb Kidger Paul:
Does this mean that services such as the S1 will now again be able
to run through Basel.
Yes, it means that they will again be /able/ to run through. But I
don't know, if they /will/ run through again.

Do I remember correctly that before the FLIRTs were introduced, this
service did run through to Mulhouse.
Yes that's right. They ran with RBDe 562. Then, timetables in Switzerland were set up for FLIRTs, but the FLIRTs not allowed into France. So the FLIRTs took over the Swiss part and RBDe 562 continued to run the 25 kV part.

I know that we have discussed this before, but what is the procedure
for current changeover. I have seen the 15 and 25 indicators over
Basel 'through' platform No 3. I assume that the trains must stop,
isolate the transformer and drop the pantograph, change transformer
primary tappings, wait for the voltage indicator to change, raise
maybe a different pantograph, re energise the transformer and ready
to go. Do you know if the rolling stock has protection facilities to
guard against incorrect high tension systems being selected. 25 kV
and 15kV is a lot less likely to be catastrophic than, for example
the Bernina through trains with 11 kV AC and 1000 V DC on the centre
'through' platform at Pontresina and I presume certain 'exchange'
tracks at St Moritz.
Current changeover is different depending on the type of motive power. RAe TEE II had to lower the pantograph, Ee 3/3 II and Ee 3/3 IV were set up to run over the double system isolation with pantograph up but main switch off. System was then selected automatically. I'm not familiar with the type of system switch of the FLIRTs but I remember that FLIRT 521 011 was made going under 25 kV in 2005 without a change of transformer.

Markus, Gürbetal


Kidger Paul
 

--- In SwissRail@yahoogroups.com, Guerbetaler <muesche2-swissrail@...> wrote:

Am 21.12.2012 12:04, schrieb Kidger Paul:
Does this mean that services such as the S1 will now again be able
to run through Basel.
Yes, it means that they will again be /able/ to run through. But I
don't know, if they /will/ run through again.

Thanks Markus

Yes I agree, whatever system is used across a voltage change, there will have to be some form of interruption of the current to stop a surge when the new current is encountered. Then there is a secondary problem of pantograph compatibility with the different national systems. I guess that the Ge3/3 shunters had 'pans' suitable for low speed work around the station area of both systems.
In the UK, some of the early overhead systems were at 6.25kV 50Hz, where it was considered that clearances were too small for the full 25 kV. There were trackside magnetic switches to automatically switch off the high tension, if the driver had failed to do it. Selection was then by an alternative tapping on the transformer. In the early days of the Glasgow electrification , there were a couple of accidents where the incorrect voltage found its way onto the transformer and explosions occurred, at least one of which was fatal.
All of these 6.25 kV areas have now been eliminated and of course, even the Eurostar is now all 25kV. Im not sure whether the Eurosar still have the 750V DC collector shoes, just in case a diversion is necessary.
Paul Kidger


Max Wyss
 

All of these 6.25 kV areas have now been eliminated and of course, even the Eurostar is now all 25kV. Im not sure whether the Eurosar still have the 750V DC collector shoes, just in case a diversion is necessary.
As far as I remember reading, the collector shoes have been taken off
some time ago (because of weight etc.).

Max.


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 22.12.2012 11:56, schrieb Paul:
Yes I agree, whatever system is used across a voltage change, there
will have to be some form of interruption of the current to stop a
surge when the new current is encountered. Then there is a secondary
problem of pantograph compatibility with the different national
systems.
French ac catenary is designed for small collector shoes. Remember that RBDe 562 only have one pantograph. TGV run eith the French ac pantograph in Switzerland.

I guess that the Ge3/3 shunters had 'pans' suitable for low speed
work around the station area of both systems.
I really doubt about this. I don't think that an RhB locomotive ever shunted in Basel.... LOL

Ee 3/3 II and IV have the Swiss standard width of 1450 mm and the catenary of Swiss border stations is designed for this.

In the UK, some of the early overhead systems were at 6.25kV 50Hz,
where it was considered that clearances were too small for the full
25 kV.
Likewise the Gotthard tunnel was fed with 7.5 kV between 13.9.1920 and 29.5.1921. Be 4/6 12303-28 were fitted with a switch for this.

Markus, G�rbetal


Kidger Paul
 

Sorry Markus, I got my G and E notations muddled. I suppose a Ge3/3 in Basel would be a feature we could enjoy on Railsim or similar...or maybe on the Basel tram system

Paul Kidger


Kidger Paul
 

As far as I remember reading, the collector shoes have been taken
off some time ago (because of weight etc.).
Thank you. Yes that would make sense especially since a diversion onto one of the 'old' routes is highly unlikely. The, of course, there is the very sound principle that it would be something which could go wrong...reliability is proportional to the number of components.
Do you know whether they still have 3000V DC capability ...I imagine that this is likely.

Paul Kidger


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 23.12.2012 10:59, schrieb Kidger Paul:
Sorry Markus, I got my G and E notations muddled. I suppose a Ge3/3
in Basel would be a feature we could enjoy on Railsim or similar...
Ehm, yes, or on the model railway...

...or maybe on the Basel tram system
A Ge 3/3 is highly unlikely on a tramway system. Because of the curves two axles or bogies are preferable. However, most shunting vehicles on tramway systems were classified Xe or Te. Only in Schaffhausen you could find Ge 2/2 and Ge 4/4 steeple cabs but they handled freight over longer distances than just "shunting".

Markus, Gürbetal


Jools39
 

The shoegear was taken off all Eurostar units shortly after the move to St Pancras madeit redundant as there are no diversionary routes in the UK.

They all are still 3kV DC fitted and some are 1500v DC fitted for the Alps trains.

Each power car has an AC and a DC pan.

Jools