[RhB] Stammnetz


OL.Guerbetal
 

The part of the RhB network built by the company itself and a.c. electrified is called "Stammnetz". You even find the abbreviation "StN" on coaches to indicate where they may run (besides "BB" and "MGB").

Now I would like to know, what the best translation of Stammnetz would be. On Wikipedia I found "core network" which seemed quite strange to me. An often seen translation is "main network" but that's "Hauptnetz", not "Stammnetz". However, I realise that the word "Stammnetz" isn't used anywhere else than by RhB.

The word is derived from "angestammt", which translates as traditional, established and is related to "Stammbaum" = family tree. Another related term is Abstammung = origin, ancestry.

Now, is there anywhere an intelligent proposition how to translate "Stammnetz"?

Markus, Gürbetal


Max Wyss
 

Now, is there anywhere an intelligent proposition how to translate
"Stammnetz"?
• Original network (BB and ChA were independent for some time before
they got merged into RhB)

• Base network (a little bit better than Core network)

• Primary network (but is the Engadin line or the Oberland line a
"primary" line?)

Max.


Roger Graham
 

From: Guerbetaler

The part of the RhB network built by the company itself and a.c.
electrified is called "Stammnetz". You even find the abbreviation "StN"
on coaches to indicate where they may run (besides "BB" and "MGB").
Now I would like to know, what the best translation of Stammnetz would
be. On Wikipedia I found "core network" which seemed quite strange to
me. An often seen translation is "main network" but that's "Hauptnetz",
not "Stammnetz". However, I realise that the word "Stammnetz" isn't used
anywhere else than by RhB.
The online German dictionary I use translates "angestammt" as "ancestral".

To find the best translation doesn't seem easy.
"Core network" might be as good as any, but what might be better is to paraphrase it rather than try to find a direct translation, and in this case what's wrong with the truth and say "company-built network"

My experience of German is that is a language in which it is easy to express a meaningful concept or situation than it is in English. Examples of this spring readily to ind such as "Realpolitik" "Weltanschauung" "Zeitgeist" amd "Schadenfreude" to name but four.

Roger


racksteam <pra@...>
 

My large volume Collins German dictionary gives the translation of "stammhaus" (relating to Gesellschaft) as "parent company".

On this basis I would say that "stammnetz" refers to the parent or original network. But I agree that there is no literal translation that can be applied.

Hope this helps,
Pete Arnold (UK)


mrgoodspeed
 

Now I would like to know, what the best translation of Stammnetz
Markus, thank you for the definition of "Stammnetz" in the RhB case (informative)

"core network" would seem a reasonable English equivalent to me. One dictionary I use gives a possible translation of "Stamm" as "root" (http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=Stamm&iservice=&comment=&email=), so "root network" would be possible – and would match the sense of your definition very well.

However it has the problem that "root" is easily confused with "route" . I would go with "core network" as being perfectly acceptable English usage and conveys the sense of the German as you define it.

Mark Goodspeed


Andy McMillan <andytrainman@...>
 

Markus wrote:

Now I would like to know, what the best translation of Stammnetz
would be. On Wikipedia I found "core network" which seemed
quite strange to me.
'Core' in English has several meanings, so as 'core of an apple' it
might seem a bit odd, but as 'core of a cable' (i.e. the bit that
carries the electricity) it might make more sense. However...


An often seen translation is "main network" but that's "Hauptnetz",
not "Stammnetz". However, I realise that the word "Stammnetz"
isn't used anywhere else than by RhB.
According to my 'German-English Technical and Engineering Dictionary
by Dr. Louis De Vries und Theo M. Herrmann (McGraw-Hill, 2nd Ed.
1965): 'Stamm' = m tribe, trunk, stem, stalk, cadre ... (none of
which seem eminently suited) but does explain the use of both 'core'
and 'main' as suggested translations.

However! I note your comment that the word is uniquely used by the
RhB so perhaps a unique translation is more appropriate than a general
one. Therefore I note that - after a list of variants of the word
'Stamm' - comes a list of examples using 'Stamm-' as a stem. The
first of these is 'Stamm-farbe' f 'primary colour' - from which I
suspect 'Stammnetz' could reasonably be translated as 'primary
network', noting that it was the first network of the RhB, and that
even though other lines pre-date some of the later RhB primary
network, these lines only came to the RhB after previous ownership,
They are thus 'secondary' lines in terms of ownership by period, even
if not in terms of importance or original age, and thus could fairly
be excluded from the 'primary network' which is that owned and built
by the RhB. So I suggest 'primary network'

Does that count as an 'intelligent proposition'?

Kindest regards, Andy


George Raymond
 

If only the "Stammnetz" of RhB is AC, you could call it RhB's "AC network".

George


gordonwis
 

I've never thought about it too much but I always assumed in the past that Stammnetz referred to the main network operated by similar trains and equipment -  by definition the ac powered network - and excluding the routes that needed different operating rules - ie the Arosa and Bernina because of their different traction current.  

For me all of the following phrases are acceptable English railway language translations:

core network
Principal network 
Main network 

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OL.Guerbetal
 

Many thanks for the comments made by several members, very interesting!

Am 12.01.2013 21:44, schrieb George Raymond:
If only the "Stammnetz" of RhB is AC, you could call it RhB's "AC network".
As always. life is a bit more complicated than theory. With the 1997 re-electrification of the Chur�Arosa-Bahn (ChA), this not-Stammnetz-line is now also AC. However, on coaches "StN" inscription now also allows them to be used on ChA ...

Markus, G�rbetal


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 12.01.2013 01:19, schrieb Roger Graham:
My experience of German is that is a language in which it is easy to
express a meaningful concept or situation than it is in English.
Examples of this spring readily to ind such as "Realpolitik"
"Weltanschauung" "Zeitgeist" amd "Schadenfreude" to name but four.
... which in turn would imply that a translation should be avoided and
instead "Stammnetz" also be used in English? Perhaps it would perfectly
meet the Zeitgeist, when I tell you, that I always have my camera with
me in the Rucksack when travelling on the Stammnetz. :-)

Markus, Gürbetal


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 12.01.2013 14:53, schrieb Andy McMillan:
According to my 'German-English Technical and Engineering Dictionary
by Dr. Louis De Vries und Theo M. Herrmann (McGraw-Hill, 2nd Ed.
1965): 'Stamm' = m tribe, trunk, stem, stalk, cadre ... (none of
which seem eminently suited) but does explain the use of both 'core'
and 'main' as suggested translations.
This brings still another thought to my mind. Aren't there some railroads out there where one speaks about the "trunk line". Which could be translated as "Stammstrecke" and wouldn't be that far away from "Stammnetz"? Or is there another meaning behind trunk line?

All terms in the direction of main, principal, primary etc. contain, in my eyes, too much of a classification after importance. But taking the importance, the Berninabahn would sure be ahead of Davos�Filisur which in turn is clearly part of the Stammnetz.

Markus, G�rbetal


tudor erich
 

Isn`t `high rails` a term for the main route in the USA?
 
Bernard


George Raymond
 

Isn`t `high rails` a term for the main route in the USA?
Off-topic question and answer:

You may be thinking of "on the high iron", which in the US is an informal
way of saying "on the main line".

George


batn259
 

This brings still another thought to my mind. Aren't there some
railroads out there where one speaks about the "trunk line". Which could
be translated as "Stammstrecke" and wouldn't be that far away from
"Stammnetz"? Or is there another meaning behind trunk line?
That's "trunk" as in "tree trunk", the core or principal part to which secondary pieces ("branches") are attached.

In German "stammen" has a connotation of parentage or origins ("woraus stammen Sie?")
that is far weaker for "trunk" in English.

"Trunk" in English connotes "importance" much more than it does "historical origin",
whereas in German (and I am far from highly fluent in German) the two senses
of the word are more equal.

All terms in the direction of main, principal, primary etc. contain, in
my eyes, too much of a classification after importance. But taking the
importance, the Berninabahn would sure be ahead of Davos–Filisur which
in turn is clearly part of the Stammnetz.
I'd got for something like "historical core network" or "original network".


David Sharp
 

The part of the RhB network built by the company itself and a.c.
electrified is called "Stammnetz".
Would: "The RhB Original network" be an over-simplification?
That "definition" excludes later additions, even if they are older, and
steers away from implications of importance.

Dave Sharp


David Sharp
 

On 13 January 2013 22:54, Dave Sharp wrote:

The part of the RhB network built by the company itself and a.c.
electrified is called "Stammnetz".
Would: "The RhB Original network" be an over-simplification?
That "definition" excludes later additions, even if they are older, and
steers away from implications of importance.

Dave Sharp
My humble apologies - just re-read and seen that Max Wyss has already
suggested "Original Network".
As an infrequent contributor, hopefully my previous message will get
moderated!

Dave Sharp


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 13.01.2013 23:54, schrieb Dave Sharp:
The part of the RhB network built by the company itself and a.c.
electrified is called "Stammnetz".
Would: "The RhB Original network" be an over-simplification?
That "definition" excludes later additions, even if they are older, and
steers away from implications of importance.
What about the Vereina tunnel, opened in 1999, and clearly part of the Stammnetz?

It seems quite hard to translate this word. You can explain it, if you allow a phrase: "The part of the network, built by RhB itself".

Markus, G�rbetal


gordonwis
 

It seems clear to me that Stem (equivalent to trunk but for a plant smaller than a tree) is the English version of the German 'stamm'. 
see the English definitions in this dictionary link:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/stem?q=stem


Therefore the direct translation of stammnetz is stem network. 

Personally I'm happy with using the German word in my own head without translation as I ride around the RhB.


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George Raymond
 

It seems quite hard to translate this word. You can explain it,
if you allow a phrase: "The part of the network, built by RhB itself".
In a text, you could say "RhB's self-built network" and explain it on first
use as "the lines RhB built itself. RhB acquired its other lines after they
were built".

George


glenn allen
 

Isn't the Stammnetz the collection of lines that standard (full) length stock can run over?
As differentiated from the Bernina Bahn (short length coaches) and the Arosa line (which had slightly shorter coaches(?))
 
That would make 'Stamm' to be 'Main' and the BB and ChA to be branches.

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