Voralpen Express Query


csipromo
 

Hello,

I have the Roco EWIV coaches of the BT and SOB in both 1:93 and 1:87 versions. I also have BT and SOB Bistro coaches from Wabu. The BT coach is one of the first to be converted into the Revvivo design and is a former BT AB EWI coach AFAIK. The SOB one is a light steel derivative coach, formerly type BD of the BT. Some of those coaches have since been converted into pilot coaches by the BT.

My questions are as follows:

The SOB had previously acquired two of the BD coaches which were converted into pilot coaches (971/972).
BD: http://bahnch.railimages.ch/fotos/bahnen/SOB/19851015_BT_BD_Ra.jpg.html
BDt: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ch/private/SOB/car/cab/BDt_50_48_80-35_197-9.jpg
When were they converted? How many more of the BT BD coaches were sold to the SOB and what happened to them?

Did the EWIV "Voralpen Express" consists run with the Revvivo type Bistro coach before the EWIV were replaced by Revvivo coaches?

Re 456 - EWIV A - EWIVB - EWIV B


I found mostly photos of the ex-BD when I looked at photos on the www.senn.ch and other sites. I found one with Revvivo A and BD with a pair of B coaches from the RBDe566 trains and converted BDt (ex-BR/BD).

Regards

Mike C


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 20.05.2013 23:07, schrieb csipromo:
Did the EWIV "Voralpen Express" consists run with the Revvivo type
Bistro coach before the EWIV were replaced by Revvivo coaches?
No, they didn't. The consist was

Re 456 - EWIV A - EWIV B - EWIV B - EWIV B - EW I BRD ex BD

I found mostly photos of the ex-BD when I looked at photos on the
www.senn.ch and other sites. I found one with Revvivo A and BD with a
pair of B coaches from the RBDe566 trains and converted BDt
(ex-BR/BD).
Revvivo had two phases:

1997�1999: green/cream Revvivos (Rv) for St. Gallen�Arth-Goldau Regios
SOB Re 4/4 III - A Rv - BR Rv - B Rv - B Rv - BDt (now 197�198)
BT Re 456 - A Rv - BR Rv - B NPZ - B NPZ - BDt (now 191-192)

These BR Rv were rebuilt from B ex SBB (10 windows)

Before 1997 EW I of BT and SOB plus A EW I SBB (because SOB had no first class accomodation in EW I) and, for a short time, some BLS EW I D were in use.

1999 the EW IV were sold and the VAE changed to hourly. SOB and BT bought additional Revvivos, repainted the existing ones and SBB also purchased 11 coaches. Now the additional BR were based on BT AB 251�254 (9 windows).

All Revvivo coaches will go to SOB by December 2013.

Markus, G�rbetal


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 20.05.2013 23:07, schrieb csipromo:
The SOB had previously acquired two of the BD coaches which were
converted into pilot coaches (971/972). When were they converted? How
many more of the BT BD coaches were sold to the SOB and what happened
to them?
short: 3 of 8 BD were sold to SOB, finally all 8 coaches ended up as BDt 191�198 of new SOB. More in detail:

BT acquired 8 BD 511�518 in 1971, painted fully green and fitted with older, pre-used bogies. 1983/84 BD 517 and 518 were sold to SOB. BD 517 was put into service as BD 234, BD 518 went to Stadler to be rebuilt as BDt 291, BD 234 followed in 1985 and cam back as BDt 292. These driving trailers are fitted with IIId command and served for push-pull trains with Re 4/4 III. Their colour was green and red/cream.

When SOB took delivery of Re 4/4 91-96 1987-88 the subject of push-pull-trains with locomotives came back and in 1987 BD 514 became a vending-machine-Bistro BDr and 513 followed in 1988. Now they were painted cream/green (cream now under the windows).

1991 BT and SOB bought three consists of one A and three B EW IV for the VAE. SBB provided replacement coaches when maintenance was due. Now BD 511, 512, 515 und 516 were rebuilt as BRD and entrance doors were removed und the luggage compartement reduced. Three became BT 761, 762 and 765, the fourth became SOB 770, all numbered 50 62 ... When this changed and SOB became 50 47 ..., BT 50 48 ..., BT renumbered their coaches back to 511, 512 und 515. 1993 these coaches got EW I bogies and few years later all other (ex-)BD also.

For the new Revvivo-push-pull-trains, BT rebuilt the BDr 513 und 514 to driving trailers BDt 191-192 umbauen. SOB used their two, meanwhile renumbered BDt 970 and 971. For the hourly Revvivo-VAE, also the four BRD were rebuilt into driving trailers. BRD 511, 512 and 515 became BT BDt 193�195 in 2000 and BRD 770 became SOB BDt 976 in 2001. For this purpose the doors had to be reinstated.

After the BT/SOB merger in 2002, SOB BDt 970, 971 and 976 became new SOB BDt 197, 198 and 196. 191�196 can command Re 456 and 197�198 can command SBB Re 4/4 II and SOB Re 4/4 IV. 191�196 additionally have a "translator" to command Re 4/4 II and Re 4/4 IV, but after some bad experiences, SBB prohibited this, only Re 4/4 IV can still be commanded.

To have one more IIId driving trailer, SOB bought ex-WM Bt 11 in 1999 and rebuilt it as BDt 975, 2002 after merger BDt 199.

BDt 196 was involved in an accident in Schmerikon on 06.10.2010 and subsequently scrapped.

BDt 197 was rebuilt in 2008 and looks now almost like 191�196 but still kept its IIId-ability.
<http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ch/private/SOB/car/Voralpen-Express/50_48_80-35_197-9_lu1.jpg>

Only BDt 198 has kept the original livery:
<http://www.bahnbilder.de/bild/Schweiz~Privatbahnen~SOB+Sudost-Bahn/648828/sob-steuerwagen-bdt-198-im-vae-ir.html>

The numerical history:
511 > 761 > 511 > 193
512 > 762 > 512 > 194
513 > 191
514 > 192
515 > 765 > 515 > 195
516 > 770 > 976 > 196
517 > 234 > 292 > 971 > 198
518 > 291 > 970 > 197
WM 11 > 975 > 199

Regular use of BDt 191�199 will end by December 2013 and most of them will be scrapped. Possibly SOB will keep 197 as it can be used with their Re 446 (Re 4/4 IV).

Markus, G�rbetal


csipromo
 

Thank you very much for the information.
I will arrange my consists accordingly.
I am hoping that HUI will make a new model of the Bistro coach.

I have fond memories of the red/green and beige pilot coach with SOB Re 4/4 from my travels in the summer of 1985. That consist was Re 4/4 - A (Lightsteel) - B (EWI) - B (EWI) - BDt. I took photos in Wollerau and Luzern that trip and again in on subsequent trips in 1998 and 2003.

Regards

Mike C


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 21.05.2013 00:07, schrieb Guerbetaler:
Am 20.05.2013 23:07, schrieb csipromo:
Did the EWIV "Voralpen Express" consists run with the Revvivo type
Bistro coach before the EWIV were replaced by Revvivo coaches?
No, they didn't. The consist was

Re 456 - EWIV A - EWIV B - EWIV B - EWIV B - EW I BRD ex BD
However, I found two pictures with other coaches than BRD:
In SER 6/1991 there is a consist:
Re 4/4 BT - D EW I BLS - 2 B EW IV SBB - B EW IV BT - A EW IV BT
Photo is from 02.06.1991 so probably not all EW IV BT have been delivered yet, nor have the rebuilt BRD arrived. On the same date, the SOB consist looked like this:
Re 4/4 III SOB - A EW IV SOB - 3 B EW IV SOB - BDr BT (513 or 514)

On 10.07.1991 things got mixed up:
Re 4/4 III SOB - A EW IV SOB - 2 B EW IV BT - B EW IV SOB - BDr BT

Still on 16.09.1991 a BDr was in use together with EW IV (SER 11/1991)

Another intersting consist of that year is depicted in EA 8/1991:
Re 4/4 BT - D EW I BLS - 2 B EW I BT - ABt 141 BT

Markus, G�rbetal


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 21.05.2013 05:31, schrieb csipromo:
I have fond memories of the red/green and beige pilot coach with SOB
Re 4/4 from my travels in the summer of 1985. That consist was Re 4/4
- A (Lightsteel) - B (EWI) - B (EWI) - BDt. I took photos in Wollerau
and Luzern that trip and again in on subsequent trips in 1998 and
2003.
First class in the Re 4/4-BDt trains of SOB has always been an issue until the A Revvivo arrived. While BT had four AB EW I and could use their ABt with the Re 4/4 91�96, SOB had no "modern" first class coaches.

First, SOB gave its two AB light steel 261 and 262, later 570 and 571, new interiors, which, however, didn't improve their rolling quality...

There is a picture of 1988 in EA 11/1988 with an AB EW I BT in the train, which would have perfectly fitted in, but that was long before the merger and SOB searched for its own ways...

1989 they bought two old SBB light steel A of 1948 (18-33 033 and 032) and repainted them as SOB A 530�531. At the same time also 6 B (29-33 350�355) of 1953 were bought and repainted as B 811�816. This increased the seats available but downgraded the comfort of SOB trains.

SER 1/1996 shows the following consist of 24.11.1995:
Re 4/4 III 41 - 2 B EW I SOB - A EW I SBB - BDt SOB.
Now, the level was at least back to EW I comfort. Two years later, the Revvivos were there.

If I recall correctly, the A EW I from SBB had its brakes adapted to have O-brake instead of R-brake, which was essential for the 50� grades of SOB. All BT and SOB coaches were fitted with O-brake.

R-brake came in above 80 km/h and worked down to 60 km/h
O-brake came in above 40 km/h and worked down to 30 km/h

This was because the speed on SOB was 60 km/h and on BT 80 km/h. For the SOB it made an important change, as trains without O-brake were restricted to 50 km/h.

Markus, G�rbetal


Martin Baumann
 

. At the same time also 6 B (29-33
350–355) of 1953 were bought and repainted as B 811–816
The first three were briefly 231 II to 233 II then 811 to 813

811 to 816 were ex SBB 29-33 354 355 350 351 352 353 in that order

Martin Baumann