WG: articule Bulle-Broc en voie normale


Guerbetaler
 

The Bulle - Broc line of TPF will be regauged to standard gauge and reelctrified a.c. instead of d.c. This allows direct passenger trains from Bern to the Cailler chocolate factory (obviously the second "must" for far-east visitors after the Jungfrau!) and an easier access for freight cars to the same factory. Sugar deliveries had already gone to road transport but might come back thanks to standard gauge rails.

The common section of the Broc and Montbovon line leaving Bulle will be with four rails and the catenary can be switched between a.c. and d.c. power supply.

<http://www.lagruyere.ch/2014/05/de-broc-fabrique-%C3%A0-berne-sans-changer-de-train.html>

Markus, Gürbetal


Krist van Besien
 

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Markus <guerbetaler@sunrise.ch> wrote:
The Bulle - Broc line of TPF will be regauged to standard gauge and
reelctrified a.c. instead of d.c. This allows direct passenger trains
from Bern to the Cailler chocolate factory (obviously the second "must"
for far-east visitors after the Jungfrau!)
This will mean the end of the "Train Chocolat" I suppose...

Krist

--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bern, Switzerland


tudor erich
 

So the Train de Chocolat is lost?

Very sad.

Bernard


Andrew Moglestue
 

Markus,
 
I guess your remark about direct passenger trains from Bern to the Cailler factory is a joke, right?
 
Andrew

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Krist van Besien
 

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Andrew Moglestue <amogles@yahoo.com> wrote:
Markus,

I guess your remark about direct passenger trains from Bern to the Cailler factory is a joke, right?
Why would that be a joke? It's planned to do just that.

Krist


Andrew Moglestue
 

Because (for example) extending the present regio express to Broc would require more than a simple re-gauging. It would require building long platforms not only in Broc station but also at the intermediate stops between there and Bulle. In many cases there isn't the space for this so land would have to be acquired and the impact would be huge. I know Broc does get a lot of tourists, but I doubt their numbers would justify the scale of the investment. It sounds like a complete overkill to me, and furthermore the government spending a lot of money to benefit a single private enterprise (Cailler-Suchard) must certainly lead to questions being asked. Surely a simple re-gauging plus change of electrification would be sufficient to save the freight service, and a local passenger service could be provided with a suitable short train such as a GTW, all within the present right of way.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Martin Baumann
 

Such a proposal will require either two tracks or dual gauge for 770m after Bulle as the junction for Montbovon is there and not at the station


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 07.05.2014 17:59, schrieb martin98baumann@outlook.com:
Such a proposal will require either two tracks or dual gauge for 770m
after Bulle as the junction for Montbovon is there and not at the
station
You might want to reread my message, part two:

The common section of the Broc and Montbovon line leaving Bulle will
bewith four rails and the catenary can be switched between a.c. and
d.c. power supply.
so, dual gauge is the answer

Markus, G�rbetal


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 07.05.2014 16:53, schrieb Andrew Moglestue:
It would require building long platforms not only in Broc station but
also at the intermediate stops between there and Bulle.
The RE Bern - Bulle is a three-car NPZ, some 75 m long.

Markus, G�rbetal


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 07.05.2014 08:05, schrieb tudoryork:
So the Train de Chocolat is lost?
No, why? The train goes to Gruyères and the passengers are bused to the town of Gruyères and afterwards to Broc. Only on the way home they board the train directly in Broc-Fabrique. Sure, this will no longer be possible.

On the other hand, the train du chocolat is a once- a-week train, the Bern - Broc-Fabrique RE will be an hourly train! Maybe we will see a Cailler train in Bern after the Kambly train? ;-)

But sure, the first point for standard gauge was freight traffic.

Markus, Gürbetal


gordonwis
 

Although it will IMO be a slightly tight fit, I can't see a that squeezing in standard gauge track at Broc Fabrique is unsurmountable. We are not talking about dilly dally UK here! My album from a 2011 trip shows a few photos of the station.

http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/p941150355

There would be scope to replace the unused siding, and/or just about room to fit in a platform capable of taking a 75m long standard gauge rake on the straight track currently used by passenger trains. The twin vehicle metre gauge set in my shots is about 35m long overall and you can see there is room either side of the set


Krist van Besien
 

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Andrew Moglestue <amogles@yahoo.com> wrote:
Because (for example) extending the present regio express to Broc would require more than a simple re-gauging. It would require building long platforms not only in Broc station but also at the intermediate stops between there and Bulle. In many cases there isn't the space for this so land would have to be acquired and the impact would be huge.
The intermediate stations will be closed. Only Broc, and Broc Fabrique
will remain.

. Surely a simple re-gauging plus change of electrification would be sufficient to save the freight service, and a local passenger service could be provided with a suitable short train such as a GTW, all within the present right of way.
You would then need to provide a seperate train for this shuttle.
Adding a standard train to the current roster that serves the (Bern) -
Fribourg - Bulle services is more efficient.

It's part of a complete redesign of the local transport network.

Krist




--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bern, Switzerland


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 08.05.2014 11:27, schrieb Krist van Besien:
You would then need to provide a seperate train for this shuttle.
Adding a standard train to the current roster that serves the (Bern) -
Fribourg - Bulle services is more efficient.
You don't need any additional train set, because each set waits at Bulle about 40 min (i.e. 38 or 42) which is enough to go down to Broc instead.

Markus, Gürbetal


OL.Guerbetal
 

Don't forget that Broc-Fabrique receives the train du chocolat consisting of three coaches and a locomotive and that's also some 70 m

Two of the curves between Broc and Broc-Fabrique will be somewhat widened.

Markus, Gürbetal


Krist van Besien
 

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:43 PM, Guerbetaler <muesche2-swissrail@yahoo.de> wrote:
Am 08.05.2014 11:27, schrieb Krist van Besien:
You would then need to provide a seperate train for this shuttle.
Adding a standard train to the current roster that serves the (Bern) -
Fribourg - Bulle services is more efficient.
You don't need any additional train set, because each set waits at Bulle
about 40 min (i.e. 38 or 42) which is enough to go down to Broc instead.
Interesting. I expected they'd be more efficient and turn a Bern -
Bulle train back on a Bulle - Fribourg train...

Krist


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 09.05.2014 09:44, schrieb Krist van Besien:
Interesting. I expected they'd be more efficient and turn a Bern -
Bulle train back on a Bulle - Fribourg train...
This isn't possible because the Bern - Romont - Bulle train runs coupled with the Bern - Romont - Palézieux train on the Bern - Romont section. These are SBB NPZ Domino while the Fribourg/Freiburg - Bulle trains are operated with TPF Flirts. Flirt and NPZ can't be combined.

Markus, Gürbetal


Krist van Besien
 

On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Guerbetaler
muesche2-swissrail@yahoo.de [SwissRail] <SwissRail@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

This isn't possible because the Bern - Romont - Bulle train runs coupled
with the Bern - Romont - Palézieux train on the Bern - Romont section.
These are SBB NPZ Domino while the Fribourg/Freiburg - Bulle trains are
operated with TPF Flirts. Flirt and NPZ can't be combined.
Brings me to something else: With Interrail you have free travel on
SBB, but only half price on TPF. What applies on the Romont - Bulle
line?

Krist


--
krist.vanbesien@gmail.com
krist@vanbesien.org
Bern, Switzerland


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 10.05.2014 09:41, schrieb Krist van Besien krist.vanbesien@gmail.com [SwissRail]:
Brings me to something else: With Interrail you have free travel on
SBB, but only half price on TPF. What applies on the Romont - Bulle
line?
Since 09.12.2012 SBB has a concession for REs to Bulle and TPF has a concession for REs Fribourg - Bulle too. Thus the trains are what is painted on them. It would now be a good question to ask SBB, if Interrail is valid in every SBB train or not...

Markus, Gürbetal


gordonwis
 

This a classic example of why and how the Inter rail concept is being eroded


Krist van Besien
 

On 11 May 2014, at 01:03, "Gordon Wiseman gordonwis@yahoo.com [SwissRail]" <SwissRail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

This a classic example of why and how the Inter rail concept is being eroded

It was even more complicated in the past though. Things have actually improved a bit.

Krist