Freight on the Gotthard route


Andrew
 

Please may i ask two questions


1. Now that the Gotthard base tunnel has opened, has the amount of rail freight using the total length of the line increased ?


2. What percentage of rail freight now uses the tunnel and what percentage still uses the old route ?


I ask these questions in order that I can plan where best to film the freight trains.


One more question please, What has become of Erstfeld depot since the opening of the tunnel. When I was last there in May 2015, three was a new maintenance facility being built but at the cost of many of the old buildings and the number of sidings had been greatly reduced.


Many thanks


Andy


Ewan Tait
 

On 30 Dec 2017, at 18:07, muffcj@yahoo.co.uk [SwissRail] <SwissRail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Please may i ask two questions

1. Now that the Gotthard base tunnel has opened, has the amount of rail freight using the total length of the line increased ?
Not sure to be honest. Both the Gotthard and Lötschberg routes have seemed busy when I’ve visited over the past twelve months.

2. What percentage of rail freight now uses the tunnel and what percentage still uses the old route ?
The majority of freight goes via the Gotthard Basis Tunnel. Generally speaking, the only freight that goes via the mountain route are aggregate trains (dust causing problems in the GBT) and local freight (eg, the Rexwall boxes from Weil am Rhein to Bodio) or engineers.

I ask these questions in order that I can plan where best to film the freight trains.
I’ve not bothered with the mountain route since the GBT opened, except for the VSOE. Go north or south of the portals if you want to see anything.

One more question please, What has become of Erstfeld depot since the opening of the tunnel. When I was last there in May 2015, three was a new maintenance facility being built but at the cost of many of the old buildings and the number of sidings had been greatly reduced.
It’s used for engineering trains and the LRZ, as well as SBB Historic. They did lots of work prior to the opening of the GBT, including a crane and lots of hard standing. Scroll down for some of my photos of Erstfeld over the past few years:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/maccookie/albums/72157655809794150

Regards,
Ewan


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 30.12.2017 um 19:07 schrieb muffcj@yahoo.co.uk [SwissRail]:
1. Now that the Gotthard base tunnel has opened, has the amount of
rail freight using the total length of the line increased ?
hmmm, which line? The corridor is Rotterdam - Genova. The new base tunnel line is Ryn�cht - Giustizia. It isn't possible to use less than Ryn�cht - Giustizia but only few trains go the full length Rotterdam - Genova.

2. What percentage of rail freight now uses the tunnel and what
percentage still uses the old route ?
The only freight on the old route is traffic to intermediate stations of the line. No more through trains.

Markus, G�rbetal


Andrew
 

Sorry for not being clear.

The comparison i am making is the difference in freight traffic along the current Gotthard north south axis NOW compared with say one year ago when traffic was using the old Gotthard route


Andrew
 

Ewan, many thanks for your reply, the information you have provided will be most useful. I will be staying in Altdorf south will be close to the northern portal.

Andy


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 31.12.2017 um 10:19 schrieb muffcj@yahoo.co.uk [SwissRail]:
The comparison i am making is the difference in freight traffic along
the current Gotthard north south axis NOW compared with say one year
ago when traffic was using the old Gotthard route
I can't tell you exact figures but traffic on the Gotthard route hasn't yet met the expectations. There are several reasons for this. Most important are the half-year closure of the Luino line and the Rastatt interruption. Last news say that the Rastatt event shifted a remarkable amount of traffic to the Rhine but it isn't yet clear if this is import or transit traffic and if the goods continue on rail or road after arriving in Basel. Works for 4m clearance (possibility to transport 4m high lorries on low floor wagons) still affect capacity and will continue to do so until 2020. Apart from this, the freight sector is changing quickly. Operator changes may also change the routing or the combination of goods in a train.

Interesting insights might be found in the "Verlagerungsbericht", an official paper which is available in the official languages German, French and Italian:
<https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/de/home/themen/alphabetische-themenliste/verlagerung/verlagerungsbericht.html>
(choose language in the right upper corner)

Markus, G�rbetal


Andrew
 

Many thanks Markus, it's much appreciated.

Andy


gordonwis
 

The vast majority of Gotthard freight uses the base tunnel, there is little point in photting now on the mountain section unless the VSOE or something else special is happening.

Take it from me, Erstfeld is dead as a dodo - It's not worth even stopping there now.

Due to fog in the Mittelland on my October trip I did a quick smash and grab short morning session at Steinen, here are the photos:

http://railfoteurop.piwigo.com/index?/category/212-sbb_october_2017

This was after the Rastatt blockade was lifted, and I could have stayed all day but wanted to go and film on the Jurafuss route

Hopefully you will find the other shots from my October trip of interest too.


csipromo
 

In addition to the GBT, the introduction of new safety systems, there have been changes in the number of operators working services to Italy. A few years ago, it was possible to see TX Logistics, Rail4Chem, NordCargo, Veolia (Captrain) and other haulage on the Gotthard route.
Due to non conformity with new standards, mergers and changes, many of these operators are no longer seen on the Gotthard route.
I don't know whether those runs were taken over by remaining operators (SBBC, BLSC) plus what changes will occur when Hupac begins it's own services with their expected new locomotives. It will be interesting to see what changes 2018 will bring.

Regards

Mike C


Ewan Tait
 

On 2 Jan 2018, at 03:58, csipromo@yahoo.com [SwissRail] <SwissRail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

In addition to the GBT, the introduction of new safety systems, there have been changes in the number of operators working services to Italy. A few years ago, it was possible to see TX Logistics, Rail4Chem, NordCargo, Veolia (Captrain) and other haulage on the Gotthard route.
Due to non conformity with new standards, mergers and changes, many of these operators are no longer seen on the Gotthard route.
I don't know whether those runs were taken over by remaining operators (SBBC, BLSC) plus what changes will occur when Hupac begins it's own services with their expected new locomotives. It will be interesting to see what changes 2018 will bring.
TXL were using BLS for some (all?) of their trains through Switzerland, but since the timetable change have been using their own traction on at least one return through the Gotthard.

Regards,
Ewan


http://ewan.me.uk


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 02.01.2018 um 04:58 schrieb csipromo@yahoo.com [SwissRail]:
A few years ago, it was possible to see TX Logistics, Rail4Chem,
NordCargo, Veolia (Captrain) and other haulage on the Gotthard
route.
Please distinguish between
- locomotive/wagon owner
- locomotive/wagon keeper
- train operator (RU = railway undertaking)
- traffic operator (esp. in combined traffic)

You might see a CEMAT (container traffic operator) train containing I-CEMAT wagons plus leased DE-VTGD wagons being pulled by a Nordcargo locomotive, owned by MRCE, running under the responsibility of BLSC as RU within Switzerland. This doesn't mean that the driver must be employed by BLSC, he could just as well be from MEV ...

The only company that disappeared from the list of RUs on Swiss tracks was Crossrail.

Markus, G�rbetal


John Lovda
 

Markus,

The only company that disappeared from the list of RUs on Swiss tracks was Crossrail.........
Please tell me what this means? Are they out of business? Did they just leave Switzerland?
Thanks,
John


OL.Guerbetal
 

Am 02.01.2018 um 18:59 schrieb jlovda@yahoo.com [SwissRail]:
Please tell me what this means? Are they out of business? Did they just leave Switzerland?
They limited their activity to Basel as most Southern point. Swiss and Italian activity was handed over to other RUs, in Switzerland mostly SBBIN. Their Re 436 111-115, now Re 430 111-115, of which 113 was damaged by BLS, were sold to Widmer Rail Services (WRS) which will participate in moving sugar beets next year. 113 was finally scrapped after having been in Bellinzona since the collision.

<http://www.bahnbilder.de/name/galerie/kategorie/suchen/suchbegriff/430+112-3.html>

Markus, Gürbetal


csipromo
 

Crossrail (or what remains of it) is now controlled by Rhenus and LKW Walter. They renounced their operations in Switzerland and Italy. I don't know whether Crossrail routes are being operated by a specific company in Switzerland and Italy, but have seen photos of what used to be Crossrail trains being pulled by SBBC on the Gotthard and BLSC on the Loetschberg route.


I think that most of the former Crossrail BR 185s have been returned to MRCE and CB Rail. Crossrail continues to operate their CB Rail 186s. I don't know what happened to the 185s that were leased from Babcock and Brown. They may also have found new owners.


I suspect that operations in Germany will be integrated under the Rhenus label and the company will then restructure it's operations outside of Germany.


It is also interesting to see that Hupac intends to assume a role as an RU in Switzerland (and possibly in other countries too. Hupac was an investor in Crossrail and also a minority investor in SBB Cargo International. At the same time, SBB is an investor in Hupac, so the web is rather intricate.


It would be nice to have a more precise image of how they are all intertwined.


Regards


Mike C


Andrew
 

Thanks Gordon, I will not ignore your advise. It's such a shame as my love of Switzerland was spawned in Erstfeld staying in The Hotel Frohsinn. The hotel no longer welcomes train enthusiasts and it is so sad to hear of the demise of Erstfeld as a busy freight location. Some would call it progress............and a lot wouldn't ! !.
I'll be fine and will listen to the advice of group members. I am privileged to have visited the country enough times now to have some ideas of where else to visit. Places such as Olten and Killwangen-Spreitenbach are always on my list of "must visit locations", please don't tell me things are bad there too !.
Andy


jtatum43
 

Andy,

I'm curious regarding your comment that the Hotel Frohsinn no longer welcomes train enthusiasts. In what ways do they demonstrate this? Thanks!


Jim Tatum


John Lovda
 

Andy: Except for the fact that I never spent the night in Erstfeld, my feelings are the same as yours. I stopped there on every trip, at least 15 times over the last 20 yrs. I was there in 2016 during the Base Tunnel celebration but it's not the same as watching freight.
John


Ewan Tait
 

On 5 Jan 2018, at 08:19, eldojim@hotmail.com wrote: I'm curious regarding your comment that the Hotel Frohsinn no longer welcomes train enthusiasts. In what ways do they demonstrate this? Thanks!

I think it would fairer to say that the Hotel Frohsinn are more interested in group travel than solo travellers. I’ve had two bookings cancelled or part cancelled (moved to a different hotel) and a friend had the same (but no alternative accommodation offered).

Regards,
Ewan

[Quoting repaired by the moderator]


yatton123
 

Andy, have no fear about Kilwangen not being busy. Since the introduction of the Wagonload train changes in 2017, the trains into Limmattal from the west run mainly from 12.30 to 16.10 , after that it's fairly quiet. The busiest period is probably 15.00 - 15.30 when 11 freights are due from the west into RBL Another two are due from the east during this time, one of which will leave part of its train in the yard but will continue westward with Migros containers.


Andrew
 

Ewan, your testimony speaks for itself and it's shocking. That would NEVER have happened when Paul and Ruth ran The Hotel Frohsinn. Many members of The UK based Swiss Railways Society (SRS) which welcomes members from all over the world will tell you just how welcoming they were to everybody and certainly to train enthusiasts.The last time I walked passed the hotel in May 2015 it had huge Chinese ? letters all over the resturant windows. There's a clue for you.

Andy