BLS Goldenpass


csipromo
 

I was going through my photos and others that I have downloaded or seen on the web and trying to figure out whether the Goldenpass between Interlaken and Zweisimmen was ever operated top and tail, with a BLS Re 4/4 at either end in place of the regular Steuerwagen?

Regards

Mike C


Guerbetaler
 

Am 04.12.2020 um 19:15 schrieb csipromo via groups.io:
trying to figure out whether the Goldenpass between Interlaken and
Zweisimmen was ever operated top and tail, with a BLS Re 4/4 at
either end in place of the regular Steuerwagen?
I'm not aware of any BLS Pendelzug with two locomotives. But I have seen trains with motor coaches top and tail. But that was quite long ago.

I know this type of consist (locomotive top and tail) from SBB, SOB and RhB. On MGB and ZB it's technically impossible. On MOB it would be possible but was never seen.

Markus, Gürbetal


Toma Bacic
 

On MGB and ZB it's technically impossible.
Why? Because of the rack?

Thank you and regards
Toma


Guerbetaler
 

Am 04.12.2020 um 21:58 schrieb Toma Bacic:
On MGB and ZB it's technically impossible.
Why? Because of the rack?
Yes. MU on rack sections requires two independent braking systems that can be actuated from the leading cab. This is nowadays the standard for all the EMUs like ADLER, FINK, Komet etc. But the HGe 4/4" isn't fitted like that. Well, technically two HGe" can run in MU on the rack section. But then the second locomotive must be counted as load for the first locomotive! Attached is a photo I took this summer in Andermatt, when 103+102 had to be brought to Disentis. Two empty coaches (2282+2288) were in the train as braking cars.

For this same reason you could see the Brünig Deh 4/6 in triple traction only going up to the Brünig. On arrival the additional motor coaches had to be detached and they returned to Meiringen or Giswil singly. The train was taken down by only one Deh (or one of the two HGe 4/4')

Markus, Gürbetal


Martin Baumann
 

In the 2001 timetable the Goldenpass was worked by a pair of Ae 4/4, normally together at one end of the train but on 18.01.2001 I had the following formation on 2357 16:20 ex Zweisimmen

257
AS 826
WR 451
B 719
252
BD 843
A 811
AB 805
B 709
BDt 941

Earlier that day 252+257 were both at the rear of 2352 14:03 ex Spiez


Chris Lee
 

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 20:48:15 +0100
"Guerbetaler" <guerbetaler@sunrise.ch> wrote:

I'm not aware of any BLS Pendelzug with two locomotives. But I have seen
trains with motor coaches top and tail. But that was quite long ago.
The set(s) with double deck wagons rented from DB ran with 485/185 top
and tail on Bern S-Bahn S1?

--
Photographer Chris <photographer.chris@gmail.com>


Guerbetaler
 

Am 05.12.2020 um 13:01 schrieb Martin Baumann:
In the 2001 timetable the Goldenpass was worked by a pair of Ae 4/4,
normally together at one end of the train
no, this wasn't the normal

but on 18.01.2001 I had the following formation on 2357 16:20 ex Zweisimmen
257 AS 826 WR 451 B 719 252 BD 843 A 811 AB 805 B 709 BDt 941
This was the normal thing

Earlier that day 252+257 were both at the rear of 2352 14:03 ex
Spiez
This might have been as "Q-Lok" instead of "Vorspann". Probably not in MU but with additional driver.

In January 2001 that was timetable 2000/01 (timetable change was still
in May). For this we read in EA 5, 7 and 9/2000, that there were two
push-pull consists with Ae 4/4 and five coaches. Train 2348, Interlaken 09:36 - Zweisimmen 10:40 had an As, WR 451 and B added at the rear. These coaches stood then in Zweisimmen and the WR was used as restaurant. Train 2352 Spiez 14:03 - Zweisimmen 14:40 brought an additional Ae 4/4, normally at the head, which shunted As-WR-B to the head of train 2357 Zweisimmen 16:30 - Interlaken Ost 17:24 and took them off again. Probably these operations were not in MU but with an additional driver. But on this I don't have reliable infos. The additional locomotive was not in the BLS Zugbildungsplan 2000/2001, of which I have a copy.

This concept lastet until May 2001. Afterwards WR 451 was integrated into a long golden consist with Ae 4/4 and BDt 940.

Original texts from Eisenbahn-Amateur

EA 7/2000: Die Renaissance der Ae 4/4 hält an: Zwei Stück werden in fünfteiligen Pendeln im Simmental eingesetzt: 2346, 2348 (ab Interlaken), 2352, 2356, [15] 2358/2347, 2351, 2357, 2359, [15] 2361 (die Lok steht Seite Interlaken, die Züge führen häufig Verstärkungswagen am Schluss). Eine Lok bedient das Güterzugpaar [15] 61362/[15] 61371 Spiez (7.20) —Zweisimmen (9.00/10.50)—Spiez (12.30), fährt mit 2352 an der Spitze nach Zweisimmen und mit den Verstärkungswagen an der Spitze des 2357 bis Interlaken. Die vierte Ae 4/4 macht vorübergehend die Überfuhrzüge ab Thun bis Toffen.

And EA 5/2000 wrote: Der BLS-Clubwagen WR 88-33 451 ex BT wird ab Fahrplanwechsel als «BistroBar Golden Pass» zwischen Interlaken und Zweisimmen eingesetzt, bewirtschaftet durch Mitropa Suisse mit einem auf den Einsatz zugeschnittenen Angebot (Interlaken Ost ab 9.36, Zweisimmen an 1O.40/abl6.20, Interlaken Ost an 17.24).

Finally EA 9/2000: Seit Fahrplanwechsel ist die «Golden Pass»-
Verbindung Interlaken Ost—Zweisimmen mit dem Einsatz des Salon Bleu und des BLS-Clubwagens attraktiver gemacht worden. Letzterer wird während des Stilllagers in Zweisimmen zwischen 10.40 und 16.20 von der Mitropa als stationäres Restaurant betrieben.


Ewan Tait
 

On 5 Dec 2020, at 14:04, Chris Lee <photographer.chris@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 20:48:15 +0100
"Guerbetaler" <guerbetaler@sunrise.ch> wrote:

I'm not aware of any BLS Pendelzug with two locomotives. But I have seen
trains with motor coaches top and tail. But that was quite long ago.
The set(s) with double deck wagons rented from DB ran with 485/185 top
and tail on Bern S-Bahn S1?
Here we go:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/fototak/6280206286/

--
http://ewan.me.uk


Guerbetaler
 

Am 05.12.2020 um 15:04 schrieb Chris Lee:
The set(s) with double deck wagons rented from DB ran with 485/185
top and tail on Bern S-Bahn S1?
Yes. It was only one consist, formed with 185 525 and 527 and DBpza781
50 80 26-81 235, 236, 244, 245 und DABpza786 50 80 36-81 097. This was a compensation by Bombardier for the late livery of RABe 535. 485 017 and 019 of BLSC had been adapted as replacements for the ATC locomotives.
(EA 1 abd 4/2009)

Markus