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MGB loks 21-24


daigog218
 

Hello,

MGB Lok no.23 has been operating the 'Sportzug' additional trains for skiers between Sedrun and Dieni recently. Do this batch of locomotives work anything else regularly apart from the Andermatt car trains? Any additional services in the summer perhaps?

Many thanks,

Dave


Guerbetaler
 

Am 12.02.2020 um 12:18 schrieb daigog218 via Groups.Io:
MGB Lok no.23 has been operating the 'Sportzug' additional trains for
skiers between Sedrun and Dieni recently. Do this batch of
locomotives work anything else regularly apart from the Andermatt car
trains? Any additional services in the summer perhaps?
Ex-BVZ motor luggage vans 21-24 are often used but perhaps not "regularly". A typical use might be:

Deh - 4171/72 - 4270/72 - 2253/54
Deh - 4171/72 - 4270/72 - 2253/54
Deh - car trains, possibly with Bt 2251/52
Deh - Oberalp consist (up to 5 coaches)

7 December 2019 I saw
2253-4270-4220-4172-24
doing Visp - Andermatt turns

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gordonwis
 

Since the arrival of the EMUs on the Zermatt line, 21 - 24 can appear at any time anywhere really.
(For some reason there are one of my favourite types of Swiss motive power, possibly due to them being ever present on my fondly remembered all family trips to Zermatt over the last 15 or so years, especially one trip when one of them spent most of the week constantly visiting the siding within spitting distance of my Zermatt Ambassador hotel room balcony.)

For example, 23 was out and about above Disentis a few summers ago when we were camping near Disentis.

More recently, in April 2019 during my enforced longer than expected time in the Visp/Brig area, as it was my first visit to the Visp area for a few years, on 11 April when I saw 22 in the dept at Glisergrund I thought - “oh well - it doesn’t look very active - they’re probably only used in emergency these days” - only for it to pop up on a passenger working at Brig the next day. Similarly, later that week, having got use to most Deh worked trains being in the hands of the 51 or 91series, suddenly on 16 April at Visp, 21 appeared working a train at around 10.00 then 22 also appeared at 13.15 the same day on a working to Zermatt.


Guerbetaler
 

Am 15.02.2020 um 01:54 schrieb gordonwis via Groups.Io:
Since the arrival of the EMUs on the Zermatt line, 21 - 24 can appear
at any time anywhere really.
Sorry for the rant, but 21-24 are EMU as well. When working push-pull over the Obealp they mostly have GF-couplers within the set. The classic central buffer with two chains is not very well suited for pushing operations.

And apart from this I might remember you of the the fact that there had been earlier EMUs on BVZ as well with ABDeh 6/6 2031-32 and ABDeh 8/8 2041-43. even if you could classify them rather as "Allegraish " :-P

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gordonwis
 

1. OK I missed out one key word : I should have typed ‘Komet EMUs’ as I am fully aware of the older EMUs - in fact 2041 - 2043 were one of my favourite EMUs anywhere - there was just something about them - they had a slightly different appearance to many Swiss metre gauge vehicles so stood out.

2. Please remember to take into account British railway terminology. MGB 21 - 24 are not ‘EMU’ to most British railway people. The most accurate term for them in UK railway English is probably ‘motor luggage van’ but like the SBB 450s they look and act like locos and slightly fall into a ‘muddy’ area of terminology because when coupled up to a set of coaches they would probably be termed ‘power car’

In UK railway parlance, EMU refers to an almost permanently fixed set of two or more coaches whereby you would very rarely (if ever) see the power car separated from the rest of the set to be parked in a shed or to move around as a single vehicle. This is quite different to how 21 - 24 are used. They are frequently uncoupled from stock and go into a shed on their own as happens at Disentis and Glisergrund. It is quite likely that the next set of coaches that they would then couple up to would be different. This would never happen with a British ‘EMU’ - as I mentioned last April 22 was in Glisergrund sitting on its own like a locomotive (see photo) then within a few hours had been coupled up to a ‘loco hauled' set of coaches.

On Saturday, 15 February 2020, 15:27:17 GMT, Guerbetaler <guerbetaler@...> wrote:

Sorry for the rant, but 21-24 are EMU as well.
And apart from this I might remember you of the the fact that there had
been earlier EMUs on BVZ as well with ABDeh 6/6 2031-32 and ABDeh 8/8
2041-43.


Guerbetaler
 

Am 17.02.2020 um 01:57 schrieb gordonwis via Groups.Io:
2. Please remember to take into account British railway terminology.
Oh yes, I do. I bought the Ian Allen and later Platform 5 booklets
since the 1970ies.

MGB 21 - 24 are not ‘EMU’ to most British railway people. The most accurate term for them in UK railway English is probably ‘motor luggage van’
I often use the term motor luggage van for the MGB Deh. However, motor
luggage vans are always listed under EMUs in British booklets.

but like the SBB 450s they look and act like locos
However, SBB's 450s are officially classified as locos and their luggage
compartment has been out of use for many years. Initially the doors had
been painted like other doors (of the coaches) but now they no longer carry a special colour.

and slightly fall into a ‘muddy’ area of terminology because when coupled up to a set of coaches they would probably be termed ‘power car’
Power car would be another appropriate term, but this still isn't a
locomotive :-)

In UK railway parlance, EMU refers to an almost permanently fixed
set of two or more coaches whereby you would very rarely (if ever)
see the power car separated from the rest of the set to be parked in
a shed or to move around as a single vehicle.
For many years this was the case for all 15 Deh that now belong to MGB,
as there had been a driving trailer for each Deh available. This changed
with two Bt 2251-52 often used with HGe 4/4" and finally with the new
concept of modules B-ABt added to the Visp - Andermatt trains.

For a long time there had also been fixed consists, e.g.
51-4251-4252-4151
52-4253-4254-4152
etc.
And they have different couplers within the set.

This is quite different to how 21 - 24 are used. They are frequently
uncoupled from stock and go into a shed on their own as happens at
Disentis and Glisergrund. It is quite likely that the next set of
coaches that they would then couple up to would be different. This
would never happen with a British ‘EMU’ - as I mentioned last April
22 was in Glisergrund sitting on its own like a locomotive (see
photo) then within a few hours had been coupled up to a ‘loco hauled'
set of coaches.
No, when in use as power car they are never uncoupled anywhere else than in the workshop. But as most Swiss motor coaches they are quite powerful and can thus be used for other purposes.

Interestingly the development was mostly from motor coaches in near locomotive use towards a pure power car function, as could be seen with SBB RBe 4/4 or BT/SOB BDe 4/4 or even RhB ABe 4/4. But it's the opposite with MGB who, after the arrival of the HGe 4/4" started to use some Deh as locomotive like.

Today mostly two of 21-24 work as EMU with 2253-54 and two work as locomotive replacements. Recently also one or two ex-FO Deh were seen working single.

Markus, Gürbetal


Guerbetaler
 

Am 17.02.2020 um 01:57 schrieb gordonwis via Groups.Io:
in fact 2041 - 2043 were one of my favourite EMUs anywhere - there
was just something about them - they had a slightly different
appearance to many Swiss metre gauge vehicles so stood out
I wondered in which way they stood out. I collected some faces to compare. Starting with the 1939 RhB ABe 4/4 501-04 many motor coaches were built in a basically similar design. Width of the vehicle made a rather narrow or a wide appearance, the window could be high or not so high. In many cases the windows had a rubber frame, many others didn't have. And the edges wer slightly rounded.
<https://groups.io/g/SwissRail/album?id=241366>

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