RIC Am & Bm corridor coaches


Alan McMillan
 

On the original corridor versions of the RIC coaches, Am and Bm, how many of the compartments were smoking and how many non smoking. Were the seats a different colour to delineate which was which? I've not managed to find any pictures of the interiors of these coaches other than after they were converted to open saloons.

Alan


Guerbetaler
 

Am 01.08.2021 um 12:52 schrieb Alan McMillan:
On the original corridor versions of the RIC coaches, Am and Bm, how
many of the compartments were smoking and how many non smoking. Were
the seats a different colour to delineate which was which?
According to SBB drawings and as was the "normal" thing at that time, 50% were smoker. In my memory and on photos I have, seats were green for non smoker and red for smoker.

If qou look at the coach from the compartment side, there are from left to right (R = Raucher/smoker, NR = Nichtraucher/non smoker):

Bm 22: 6 R - 6 NR
Bm 21: 5 R - 6 NR
ABm: 3 R/2nd - 3 NR/2nd - 2 NR/1st - 2 R/1st
Am: 4 R - 5 NR

Markus


Alan McMillan
 

Thank you very much for that Markus. I can now set about detailing the interior of my first RIC "backdating". I've got a few of the Liliput ones that need to go back to their original condition. I've attached a couple of pictures to show progress.

Alan


Guerbetaler
 

Am 01.08.2021 um 14:24 schrieb Markus (Gürbetal) Y:
In my memory and on photos I have, seats were green for
non smoker and red for smoker.
Photo attached is from 1986 in 2nd class somewhere between Luxemburg and Basel. The other photo is a first class coach of the same train in Luxemburg station.

Markus


Andy Micklethwaite
 

When did they lose the all-green livery and what took it's place?
TIA Andy Mick.


Guerbetaler
 

Am 01.08.2021 um 16:57 schrieb Andy Micklethwaite via groups.io:
When did they lose the all-green livery and what took it's place?
Am, ABm, Bm and Dms didn't lose the all-green livery until they were rebuilt or withdrawn. The new colour depended on what the coach then became.

However, not all Bm were all-green. 40 coaches had been delivered in C1 livery, that is the Eurofima orange with a white band.
51 85 21-70 090-109 and 150-169

The dining cars were red and also got C1 livery around 1980. WRm 000 had TEE livery for the Bavaria for some time.

Couchette cars Bc 51 85 50-70 000-049 got two different blue liveries at some point.

Markus, Gürbetal


Alan McMillan
 

When the day coaches were converted from side corridors to open saloons, they got a version of the green and grey the EWIVs wore.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIC-X-_und_Z2-Wagen_der_SBB#/media/Datei:Bpm_51_85_21-70_456-0_Chur_011011_RE3830_Ch-SG.jpg


Andy Micklethwaite
 

At 16:23 01/08/2021, you wrote:
Am, ABm, Bm and Dms didn't lose the all-green livery until they were rebuilt or withdrawn. The new colour depended on what the coach then became.
Many thanks.


Guerbetaler
 

Am 01.08.2021 um 17:59 schrieb Alan McMillan:
When the day coaches were converted from side corridors to open
saloons
This was only for the Bm 21. Other conversions were:

Bm 22 into sleeping seat coaches (Liegesesselwagen) in blue night train livery

Am into lorry driver sleeping coaches for piggyback trains, HUPAC and RAlpin liveries see attchment

A few coaches were rebuilt into several service vehicles with very different liveries, the best known might be the yellow radio measuring coach.

The rest of the Am, ABm, Dms and Bm 22 were scrapped still green.

Markus, Gürbetal


Bob Tomasko
 

Were the RIC corridor coaches commonly used in trains with the orange Eurofima coaches, or were some city-pairs typically serviced by one or the other?

Bob


csipromo
 

A number of the coaches from the final delivery of the Bm RIC coaches (11 compartments) were delivered from the factory in the C1 (Orange) livery as chosen for the VSE (Voiture Standard Europeene) aka Eurofima coaches. That said, it was quite common for the Eurofima Am (1977) to be used in combination with earlier coaches in the green livery.
The main difference between the RIC and UIC-X coaches and the new generation UIC-Z coaches (Eurofima type) was that the newer coaches were delivered with air conditioning, which made them more common to find in the top Intercity (IC) and Express trains. A few years later, the SBB received 30 air conditioned Bpm Open Seating coaches, most of which went into service in those top tier trains. Less than a decade later, those coaches formed the backbone of the SBB fleet in the new EuroCity system (1987) until the delivery of the new EC'90 coaches starting in 1990. At that point, the older RIC coaches were either downgraded to secondary use or modified for domestic (inland) operation. The oldest coaches were gradually taken out of service while the most recent are still in use today in many trains although their end of life is near.


csipromo
 

Bob,

not quite sure what you meant by city-pairs. Domestic InterCity trains (i.e. St. Gallen-Zurich-Bern-Geneva) were originally EWI/EWII. Later (1975), the EWIII (Swiss Express) and then the EWIV (1983/84) coaches replaced the older designs. The RIC compartment coaches were more frequently found on other routes (Basel-Luzern-Chiasso or Basel-Zurich-Chur as those usually were made up of coaches from international trains combined with coaches added for the domestic part of the route. In addition to the flagship trains, the orange (Eurofima Am) and later (Bpm) could occasionally be found in such long distance trains. These chances increased as coaches once used for international routes were made available as those consists were at that point operated by foreign railways. For example, some services between Munich and Switzerland which had been operated with SBB coaches may have switched to DB coaches, making the SBB rolling stock available for other uses.

Regards

Mike C


Guerbetaler
 

Am 02.08.2021 um 04:53 schrieb Bob Tomasko via groups.io:
Were the RIC corridor coaches commonly used in trains with the orange Eurofima coaches, or were some city-pairs typically serviced by one or the other?
It was the idea to use the 40 Bm Z2 in C1-livery together with the 20 Eurofima-Am of 1977, as SBB hadn't ordered Bm coaches. But as Mike wrote, already in 1980/81 30 air-codnditioned Bpm arrived, also in C1-livery, and they largely replaced the Bm.

But there were many trains where it was tried to keep the colour throughout the train.

Markus