SBB Cargo "iL" logo


John Lovda
 

Hello:
Because of COVID I haven't been back to Switzerland in almost two years. I ran across this photo....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/112648581@N02/50996884120/

What does "iL" stand for?

Thanks,
John


csipromo
 

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 02:58 PM, John Lovda wrote:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/112648581@N02/50996884120/
this locomotive (482 037) was initially leased and may have since been purchased by the German operator InfraLeuna (IL)

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/private/open_access/ILIS/pix.html
https://www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1406157&id=27565&action=portrait

Regards

Mike C


csipromo
 

According to railcolor.net and other sources, Re 482 037 has been wearing the InfraLeuna colours since 2012/13.

I was not aware that the loco still had SBB markings in addition. I must have missed that detail.

SBB has been actively seeking to sell it's fleet of D/CH locomotives and replace them with DACHINL or other multi system models.
This is why thee ES64F4 and Vectrons have largely taken over operations for SBBCI in Germany and elsewhere in Europe.

SBB seems committed to keeping 482 000-34, but are seeking to divest 482 035-49. More info on the policy would be helpful
I find it strange that SBB leased MRCE 185 identical to these Re 482 while trying to dispose of their own locos.

Regards

Mike C


Guerbetaler
 

Am 18.03.2021 um 15:19 schrieb csipromo via groups.io:
SBB seems committed to keeping 482 000-34, but are seeking to divest 482 035-49. More info on the policy would be helpful
I find it strange that SBB leased MRCE 185 identical to these Re 482 while trying to dispose of their own locos.
From what I know 482 035-049 were built in Italy (Vado Ligure) and differ in too many things from the (German) Traxx standard design. At some point it seemed impossible to fit these locomotives with ETCS baseline 3 and this was the point where SBBC decided to get rid of these locomotives. Even more as they belong to SBBC and interoperability is rather the interest of SBBIN. All the Vectrons are leased by SBBIN, not SBBC. SBBIN doesn't own of a single vehicle...

Moreover SBBIN needs locomotives that can also be operated under 3 kV dc. Thus it's logical to sell locomotives for ac-only use.

However, I learned that some of the locomotives sold will be upgraded to ETCS baseline 3. The original reason, why they should be sold, seems to have gone.

Markus, Gürbetal



davey
 

What does "iL" stand for?
Infraleuna

I read it on the side of the loco


Toma Bacic
 

iL = InfraLeuna

regards
toma


John Lovda
 

Sorry I missed that. My brain was focused on the SBB Cargo colors and the small "SBB CFF FFS Cargo" logo on the side.

Thanks to all for your replies.


csipromo
 

Getting back to Markus' reply to my post above.
I was not aware that Re 482 035-049 were built in Vado Ligure, Bombardier's facility which used to be ABB/Tecnomasio.

My understanding was that the second series of Re 482 was still built in Kassel. Perhaps some construction elements were built at Bombardier facilities in Italy and Poland. I know that the rollout of Re 482 035 was in Kassel, having seen photos and videos of that event. It must, however, be noted that Re 482 035 was in fact, the repaint of a locomotive used to showcase the 185.2 production and initially bore DB Cargo colours.

At one point, a number of locomotives from the 035-049 series were loaned/leased to RailPool or MRCE in exchange for other locomotives (BR 186, 189) and the SBB locos were then leased or rented to other operators by those fleet companies. For example, SBBC had leased Railpool 186 for use in Holland (NL) for a short period. I believe that SBBC also leased some excess Re 484 class from MRCE, which might also have been under such a deal. At some point, these leases shifted back from MRCE/Railpool to being leases from SBBC. I would love to have more precise info about these scenarios.

I still have not wrapped my head around all of the differences between SBBCI and SBBC. If, as Markus explained, the locos belong to SBBC and SBBCI is now responsible for much if not all Cargo operations outside Switzerland, that it makes sense that SBBC might not have a need for these locomotives (domestically) and SBBCI might prefer to buy/lease locomotives capable of operating on more systems than just the DACH (Germany/Austria/Switzerland) AC networks.

To clear up my questions, who owns and operates the following tractive material?

Re 474
Re 482 000-034
Re 482 035-049
Re 484

I am pretty sure that all Re 420/421/430 and Re 620 are owned and operated by SBBC and that 193 and 189 are owned/leased by SBBCI.
The newly introduced 186 (Akiem ex-Crossrail, ex-CB Rail) are operated by SBBC or SBBCI but leased to BLSC?

Totally confusing

Regards

Mike C


Guerbetaler
 

Am 19.03.2021 um 18:04 schrieb csipromo via groups.io:
I am pretty sure that all Re 420/421/430 and Re 620 are owned and operated by SBBC and that 193 and 189 are owned/leased by SBBCI.
No, 193 and 189 are leased to SBBIN, not SBBCI. SBBCI deosn't operate locomotives. I'm not clear if they are still active.

SBBIN doesn't own one piece of rolling stock. Write that down and pin it to the wall. It's basic.

;-) Kind regards
Markus


Ewan Tait
 

For Mike’s benefit, SBBCI is SBB Cargo Italia.

Cheers,
Ewan


csipromo
 

Just so that everything gets clear:
SBBCI = SBB Cargo Italia (Gallarate)
SBBCD = SBB Cargo Deutschland (Duisburg)
SBBNL = SBB Cargo Nederland BV (Rotterdam)
SBBC = SBB Cargo Switzerland (Olten)

SBBIN = SBB International (Is this the same as SBB Cargo International?)
(There is no Google presence for SBB International)
This is what I have on occasion referred to as SBBCI.
From what I understood, this was a Joint Venture between SBB Cargo and Hupac around 2011.

It's very confusing. SBB IN is 75% SBB and 25% Hupac, but Hupac is almost 24% SBB, so how much of Hupac's share of SBB IN actually belongs to SBB?

Is SBB Cargo AG the same as SBB Cargo Switzerland? I know that Planzer, Galliker, Camions Transport and Bertschi (dba Swiss Combi AG) have acquired shares (35%) in the company. Was the name change just to reflect the new ownership?

SBBCI (Italia), SBBCD (German) and SBBCNL are all divisions (subsidiaries) of SBB Cargo International.
Previously Re 474, Re 484 and Am840 were registered to SBBCI and Am842 and others (ex-DB, ex-DR) were registered to SBBCD.
Who are those all registered to today?

Does SBBIN lease locomotives from SBBC (Re 482, Re 430, Re 620, etc)? or is SBBC contracted to haul certain trains in Switzerland for SBB IN (Basel-Chiasso/Basel-Domo, etc)?

If a company in Germany wants their goods shipped through Switzerland, who would they deal with? SBBCD, SBB IN or SBB Cargo?
I guess that this could be it's own thread.

Regards

Mike C


csipromo
 

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 02:58 PM, John Lovda wrote:


https://www.flickr.com/photos/112648581@N02/50996884120/
John,

I'm guessing that the loco was back in Switzerland for maintenance (Bellinzona most likely) and the photo was taken either on it's way south or on it's way back to Basel. In prior cases, a replacement 482 was loaned to the operator while their leased unit was being serviced and it was then returned and the two locomotives would be exchanged at Basel Bad Bf.

Regards

Mike C


Guerbetaler
 

Am 19.03.2021 um 18:04 schrieb csipromo via groups.io:
I was not aware that Re 482 035-049 were built in Vado Ligure, Bombardier's facility which used to be ABB/Tecnomasio.
I got this info from persons who are dealing with locomotive software. Maybe that only the electric gear was produced in Vado Ligure, not the whole locomotive. I will ask when I meet these persons again.

Markus


csipromo
 

Railcolor.net only provides the date when the locos were accepted by SBBC and the location. It provides the production number, but not the location of production.
It is possible that some of the electronics were developed by ABB Tecnomasio, as they were participating in Bombardier production, but mainly limited to the FS E405, E412, E464, E483 and PKP EU-43 class machines. According to Wikipedia, final production of Bombardier locomotives at Vado Ligure only refers to DC models.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRAXX#TRAXX_F140_AC

Regards

Mike C


Martin Baumann
 

Is it definite that SBB 035 to 049 were built by Vado Ligure? They have Bombardier works numbers and I would expect then to have 4 digit VL works numbers if built there


Guerbetaler
 

Am 27.03.2021 um 18:48 schrieb Martin Baumann:
Is it definite that SBB 035 to 049 were built by Vado Ligure?
As I said I will try to get more info. But this will take some time. Thank you for patience

Markus


csipromo
 

I know for a fact that 185 561 was built in Kassel. The sequencing of numbers for 482 036 to 482 049 are in order with other Kassel manufactured 185.5.
The Re 484 and MRCE 484 and ID 370 might have had some elements made at Vado Ligure as well as the Traxx2E 140MS and DC (aka 186 and E483).

Regards

Mike C


csipromo
 

From the https://rail.bombardier.com/en/about-us/worldwide-presence/italy/en.html site:

Projects in Italy

To date, Bombardier Transportation Italy has produced 728 E464 locomotives, 50 ETR1000-V300 ZEFIRO very high-speed trains, and more than 200 TRAXX DC2 locomotives, all under full-service maintenance contracts. Some 50 new TRAXX DC3 locomotives were ordered in late 2017 and early 2018.

There is no mention of SBB Re 482 or Re 484 in this list.

I also found this document, but it does not list the location of production/assembly:
https://rail.bombardier.com/content/dam/transportation/products/locomotive/Locomotives-reference_list_EN.pdf

Regards

Mike C