SBB EW IV converted into NBS / 200 km/h


tms460
 

Hello,
Do you know how many SBB EW IV cars A and B were rebuilt for NBS / 200 km/h ?
Also maybe you may have picture of this cars which shows their description on car body ?
I wonder what is technical difference between EW IV 160km/h / NBS   and EW IV 200km/h /NBS ?
Best regards from Gdansk,PLTomasz Sztencel


csipromo
 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einheitswagen_(Schweiz,_Normalspur)

There is a section on the EWIV.

The original coaches were not intended for push-pull operation.
The 160km coaches were upgraded for use in push-pull operation with Re 460 and IC Bt.
The 200km coaches were upgraded for use on the new routes (NBS Mattstetten-Rothrist) for high speed operation with the Re 460.
Additional modifications were made to upgrade the 200km coaches for the Loetschberg and Gotthard base tunnels, including sealed toilet systems.

I found some data here: https://data.sbb.ch/explore/dataset/rollmaterial/information/

Regards

Mike C


Guerbetaler
 

Am 29.01.2020 um 09:30 schrieb tms460 via Groups.Io:
Also maybe you may have picture of this cars which shows their
description on car body ? I wonder what is technical difference
between EW IV 160km/h / NBS and EW IV 200km/h /NBS ?
Yes, I have pictures, but they don't express what the differences are.
You find photos in the photos section of our group
<https://groups.io/g/SwissRail/photos>
in the "GBTextra" folder

There was a long list of adaptations required to be used on NBS, then into LBT and finally GBT. Most points concerned passenger safety, protection against fire, stops in tunnels etc. AFAIK all EW IV are now allowed on NBS and through LBT, but not yet all through GBT. Official lists don't contain this information. But they contain info about max. speed, as the 160 km/h coaches have digit 7 on the seventh place, those allowed 200 km/h have digit 9.

There are still
77 A 50 85 10-75 xxx
45 B 50 85 21-75 xxx
The bogies of these coaches don't have an anti-rolling device.
I add a photo with comparison between the bogies of
2013-10-11: A 50 85 10-75 175-5
2011-06-13: A 50 85 10-95 196-7

Markus, Gürbetal


Max Wyss
 

Sorry for the nitpicking, Markus.

The thingie the bogies for 200 km/h are equipped with is a yaw damper. (a
roll damper would be either vertical, or horizontal, perpendicular to the
length axis of the carbody.

Max.




Guerbetaler
 

Am 29.01.2020 um 21:59 schrieb Max Wyss:
Sorry for the nitpicking, Markus.
The thingie the bogies for 200 km/h are equipped with is a yaw damper.
Learned some German today ;-) I found that the translation of the yaw axis is "Gierachse". The movement is "gieren". I have never heard these words before...

However, in German the yaw damper on railway vehicles is called "Schlingerdämpfer". "schlingern" describes the combination of yaw, pitch and roll. But if you search for a description of "schlingern" you will find explanations that would be rolling.

<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gierachse>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaw_(rotation)>

I'm still confused, but on a higher level. :-)

Markus


Max Wyss
 

You can see which motions the damper actually damps; it can do that only in
its own longitudinal axis.

And reality (in setting terms) does not always follow the theory… (like
numbering…).

Max.




csipromo
 

Not to put a damper on the discussion about terms ;), can I ask a question about the EWIV?

The original A coaches had silver window frames and some other minor differences. Did any of these survive the conversion to the new livery?

I know that sometime around 1993-1995, a number of coaches were adapted for push-pull operation with the new IC Bt pilot coaches.

Then came the modifications for the NBS Mattstetten-Rothrist, then the Loetschberg Base Tunnel and finally the GBT.
Do the GBT modifications also qualify for the Ceneri section or will further modifications be required.

I presume that the initial modifications allowed for cables for operation with pilot coach, as well as buffers designed for push-pull operation.
What other changes were conducted in each of the upgrades/modifications? I know that LBT required conversion of toilets and installation of tanks.

Regards

Mike C


tms460
 

Still Wonder if EW IV 200km/h NBS/LBT/GBT cars have electromagnetic brakes only on one or on  two bogies ?Best regardsTomasztms460
null


Guerbetaler
 

Am 30.01.2020 um 22:06 schrieb tms460 via Groups.Io:
Still Wonder if EW IV 200km/h NBS/LBT/GBT cars have electromagnetic
brakes only on one or on two bogies ?
Attached a photo of a 200 km/h bogie with yaw dampers but without electromagnetic brake.


Guerbetaler
 

Am 30.01.2020 um 19:54 schrieb csipromo via Groups.Io:
The original A coaches had silver window frames ... Did any of these survive the conversion to the new livery?
It's not a question of the livery but of window replacements. A 000-039
didn't have the rubber protection of the window frames. I don't know if
the windows have been repalced or if the rubber band was applied when
they were reassembled after modernization. I haven't seen a window
without the rubber band for a long time now.

I know that sometime around 1993-1995, a number of coaches were adapted for push-pull operation with the new IC Bt pilot coaches.
They changed numbers from -73 to -75. Main adaptation was larger buffers
and the co called "cursator" to reduce side movements whne pushed out of
Zürich HB.

Then came the modifications for the NBS Mattstetten-Rothrist
retaining toilets. Eventually all coaches have been fitted and carry now "NBS". First year was still with V 160.

then the Loetschberg Base Tunnel
fire protection, replacement of luggage racks, enclosed litters
also V 200 is required (number -95 instead -75), no more windows where a small upper part could be opened

and finally the GBT.
more fire protection:
Am 11.05.2015 um 22:48 schrieb Guerbetaler [SwissRail]:
additional components against LBT equipment are
- fire detection including transmission of the alarm to the cab
- fire extinction in places with important technical equipment
- fire protection doors where necessary (ICN)
Do the GBT modifications also qualify for the Ceneri section or will further modifications be required.
GBT is the longest of all these tunnels and has the highest requirements.

I presume that the initial modifications allowed for cables for operation with pilot coach, as well as buffers designed for
push-pull operation. What other changes were conducted in each of
the upgrades/modifications?
These are long lists of many details but not every coach got all
modifications! See SER 2/2001, 3/2007 and 5/2015

I know that LBT required conversion of toilets and installation of
tanks.
That was NBS already. Of course, LBT and GBT also require it.

Markus


Guerbetaler
 

Am 30.01.2020 um 22:06 schrieb tms460 via Groups.Io:
Still Wonder if EW IV 200km/h NBS/LBT/GBT cars have electromagnetic
brakes only on one or on two bogies ?
AFAIK all coaches
61 85 xx-9x xxx-x need them on both bogies
50 85 xx-9x xxx-x only have it on one bogie

Markus, Gürbetal


Martin Baumann
 

There have been some EW IV that were converted to 200 km/h then back to 160 km/h. I will put an xls in the files section shortly showing all the numbers and conversions