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Slip coaches in Switzerland?


jtatum43
 

Recently I saw a post about the old practice (ended in 1960) in the U.K. of having "slip coaches" on some trains to save station time. The slip coach would be a carriage on the end of the train which was uncoupled at speed to roll into a station on its on. Has there ever been such a practice in Switzerland? Thanks in advance.

Jim Tatum
Hendersonville, North Carolina


Guerbetaler
 

Am 05.07.2020 um 07:43 schrieb jtatum43:
Recently I saw a post about the old practice (ended in 1960) in the
U.K. of having "slip coaches" on some trains to save station time.
The slip coach would be a carriage on the end of the train which was
uncoupled at speed to roll into a station on its on. Has there ever
been such a practice in Switzerland?
I'm not aware of such a practice anywhere in the world, except the UK. I'm quite sure it never existed in Switzerland, for several reasons:

The practice is the more efficient the faster a train can go. For a long time Switzerland didn't have speeds in the range that you fond in the UK. Early electric locomotives reached 100 km/h or a maximum of 110. Only the Re 4/4 I (1945) brought that up to 125 and the Re 4/4 II (1964) to 140.

Electric locomotives accelerate faster than steam engines. Loss of time to reach 110 km/h again with an electric locomotive is not that much as a to reach again 160 with a steam engine.

The practice only helps in one direction and only as destination. E.g. a coach dropped in Aarau from a Zürich - Olten train only helps passengers Zürich - Aarau. It doesn't help for
- Aarau - Olten
- Aarau - Zürich
- Olten - Aarau (however, this could be dropped from Olten - Zürich).

Markus, Gürbetal


Andrew Moglestue
 

I've never come across any mentions of the practice in Switzerland.

It worked well in Britain at the time because the main flow of traffic was between London and provincial cities, with traffic between the cities being much less significant.

Switzerland doesn't have such a structure, in which traffic to or from one city dwarfs all the rest. If say an express from Geneve to Zürich were to have slipped coaches at Lausanne and some more at Fribourg, that might have shaved a couple of minutes off the overall running time between the end points, but at the huge expense of making it much more difficult to get from, say, Lausanne to Fribourg.

Furthermore, with the early move to electrification of main lines, acceleration improved as compared to steam, and thus the penalty of making stops was much lessened.


Vincent LE BIHAN
 

Outside the United Kingdom, this practice was at least used in France.  Some trains from Paris to Le Havre had coaches for St-Valéry-en-Caux, Fécamp and Étretat that were uncoupled before the bifurcation of Bréauté : http://roland.arzul.pagesperso-orange.fr/exploitation/voiture_directe.htm


 

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Le dim. 5 juil. 2020 à 14:17, Guerbetaler <guerbetaler@...> a écrit :
Am 05.07.2020 um 07:43 schrieb jtatum43:
> Recently I saw a post about the old practice (ended in 1960) in the
> U.K. of having "slip coaches" on some trains to save station time.
> The slip coach would be a carriage on the end of the train which was
> uncoupled at speed to roll into a station on its on.  Has there ever
> been such a practice in Switzerland?

I'm not aware of such a practice anywhere in the world, except the UK.
I'm quite sure it never existed in Switzerland, for several reasons:

The practice is the more efficient the faster a train can go. For a long
time Switzerland didn't have speeds in the range that you fond in the
UK. Early electric locomotives reached 100 km/h or a maximum of 110.
Only the Re 4/4 I (1945) brought that up to 125 and the Re 4/4 II (1964)
to 140.

Electric locomotives accelerate faster than steam engines. Loss of time
to reach 110 km/h again  with an electric locomotive is not that much as
a to reach again 160 with a steam engine.

The practice only helps in one direction and only as destination. E.g. a
coach dropped in Aarau from a Zürich - Olten train only helps passengers
Zürich - Aarau. It doesn't help for
- Aarau - Olten
- Aarau - Zürich
- Olten - Aarau (however, this could be dropped from Olten - Zürich).

Markus, Gürbetal




George Raymond
 

This is less spectacular than slip coaches, but my first time in Martigny in 1973, I saw station staff uncouple what I think was a postal carriage/van from the rear end of a through train during its stop. After the train was gone, a shunting locomotive came and retrieved the carriage.

George


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Max Wyss
 

It could be that Austria (or the k.u.k. predecessors) had this practice.

Or, I fell for a false friend, and the Austrian "Schleuderwagen" is just a car uncoupled at a stop.

The best known British use of slip coaches was most likely the GWR main line, which had quite a few branch lines; The slip coaches provided a fast one-seat service to several places which otherwise would not have been possible. Also note that getting to the holiday spot (such as Torquay) quickly was more important than getting back to London. So, the return service was pretty much the typical "Kurswagen" ritual.




Manfred Luckmann
 

The autrian (and also german) term "Schleuderwagen" stands
for a single (or two) coaches behind a pushing locomotive.


Guerbetaler
 

Am 05.07.2020 um 19:40 schrieb Max Wyss:
It could be that Austria (or the k.u.k. predecessors) had this practice.
Or, I fell for a false friend, and the Austrian "Schleuderwagen" is just a car uncoupled at a stop.
The Schleuderwagen is an addition to an otherwise fix trainset. This could have been some Schlieren coaches behind a 4010 in peak times.

In Siwtzerland the term was also used for any addition to a push-pull-consist (Pendelzug) not integrated in the push-pull concept. Schleuderwagens were largely replaced by "modules" which means some coaches plus a driving trailer, allowing to integrate the additional coaches into the push-pull-consist.

Markus


Andrew Moglestue
 

Also, up until nationalization, British railway companies often competed against rivals as most of the significant main connections were rivaled by that of another company. And one area where they competed was in speed. In addition to the actual additional customers this gained them, there was also the prestige value of being able to offer the fastest train from A to B, even if going back from B to A might be a different story.

Prior to the formation of SBB, the Swiss railway system was also in the hands of private enterprise, but there was much less hard competition.


Mick Sasse
 

The Schleuderwagen is an addition to an otherwise fix trainset. [...]
In Siwtzerland the term was also used for any addition to a
push-pull-consist (Pendelzug) not integrated in the push-pull concept.
This practice is of course still (at present!) very common on the RhB - so do they use the term Schleuderwagen for this practice? It was a new one for me!

Thanks
Mick


Guerbetaler
 

Am 05.07.2020 um 21:03 schrieb Mick Sasse:
This practice is of course still (at present!) very common on the RhB
- so do they use the term Schleuderwagen for this practice? It was
a new one for me!
No, I haven't heard the term in context with RhB. And they don't have the very typical Schleuderwagen, which is an addition in rush hours, because
- additional coaches on the Albula are put within the push-pull consist;
- in the case of Landquart - Davos - Filisur there is rather a minimum consist for Davos - Filisur and a train part for Landquart - Davos. The trains are not really going through and there is enough time for "reconfiguration" in Davos.

Markus


Guerbetaler
 

Am 05.07.2020 um 20:46 schrieb Manfred Luckmann:
The autrian (and also german) term "Schleuderwagen" stands
for a single (or two) coaches behind a pushing locomotive.
On the way back it is behind the driving trailer and still called a Schleuderwagen.

In an Austrian forum I read the explanation that the word comes from a passenger view, because they felt to be slung away. That would mean that the driver accelerated after curves at the normal point...

Markus